Washers in shroud
I am going to try quieting my Talon SS down. I bought 1/4″ hole fender washers and I’m being told to drill them to 5/32″. 😕 Isn’t that impossible?
I took the endcap off and the spring doesn’t fit in the shroud! It’s too large. I’ve been reading and it seemed the best choice was to a get 1″ in diameter spring.
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Cyg is right, the holes must be perfectly clear. Even a single felt fiber can throw the accuracy off.
Any stray fibers can be taken care of with an open flame from a candle or lighter.
I took out the scotch brite for that very reason. A couple of fibers work their way into the path and clipping was the result. There is a lot of pressure going on inside there and sooner or later it will beat the material until it gives up a loose fiber then whack a baffle is hit.
Cyg is right, the holes must be perfectly clear. Even a single felt fiber can throw the accuracy off.
Any stray fibers can be taken care of with an open flame from a candle or lighter.
Edit: WOW! THIS GUN IS quiet! I was short by one o-ring and one washer. We looked and found a washer and o-ring for an old hose and it was just enough. This is absolutely great and I thank all of you a million.
Thanks again,
Julien
Tony thanks for the pics of the felt idea. I have seen felt like what you have pictured, and they come attached to cups for under furniture legs and such. Might give it a try sometime. It would muffle the noise better then just the fenders. A small plumbers propane torch would work well for the fuzz from the felt.
Jool, try spacers, i use copper tubing 1″OD thin wall plumbing pipe. Cut to various lengths. This is after my 3″ expansion chamber of pvc with holes drilled and wraped with scotch britepad, this PVC fits right over the end of the barrel and slides back to the bushing. Then the copper tubing cut to length 1″, 5/8″ and 1/4″ spaced with washers and cut lenghtwise so it can be spread apart for a snug fit. If you have space at the end adjust the length of your tubing. If its just a 1/8″ or so another washer or o-ring work well.
If you want to see a squared end of a spring just take a look at your hammer spring. With a pair of pliers or other grasping tool hold your spring to a grinding wheel at 90 degrees and just flatten out. When you can sit it on a flat surface and it stands straight, your good. Yes the pressure will help keep things aligned. I’ve had issues with springs and no longer use them in any LDC (lead dust collection) configuration. Where there is a potential for movement there is a potential for trouble. The important thing is snug fitting washers with the right sized hole a little big is better then a little small, or so my wife tells me 😆 were still together so i guess shes right. Lots of diferent ways of doing a LDC setup, most work well in conjuntion with the venting of the front bushing and frame. Try different setups most of us have especially after you’ve caught the bug for silence, odd side effect of containing the dust. The quieter the rig the more dust it traps 😉
Thanks Cygnus X. I had thought about the alignment of the barrel with the two set screws pushing against the bushings but I guess that I just needed to hear about large ID’s of some AF frames. I think that mine is a large ID. It measures around 1.011″, (measured with dial calipers). So I thought up an idea for testing this.
I took a small piece of white paper and taped it to my backstop, (a box with a hillside behind it). I pressed the muzzle against the paper and traced the outline of the endcap with a pencil, and then I fired a pellet. Then I removed the endcap and centered it on my tracing and traced the inside small hole around the hole that the pellet made. I found out the my barrel is high and right–about 2 o’clock. That explains the clipping with the 0.276″ ID stock fender washers.
So, Is iit time for custom bushings? Can I wrap something around the stock bushing to help this problem? I’m open to ideas.
Cygnus X, PM me with an address for the money for the DVD.
Thanks
I bought all of the correct fitting parts and everything seems fine. I just don’t understand the squaring the ends of the springs off. I think this is so that the fender washers don’t turn sideways and obstruct the path of the pellet. Can someone show me a picture of squared off ends of springs? My washers do turn sideways. I’m guessing the pressure from the springs and o-rings will keep the washers upright in the barrel.
Edit: WOW! THIS GUN IS quiet! I was short by one o-ring and one washer. We looked and found a washer and o-ring for an old hose and it was just enough. This is absolutely great and I thank all of you a million.
Thanks again,
Julien
i dont remember who came up with teh idea of felt…but t is a good one…granted you can keep the fibers from entering the pellets path…which was my problem…but i had punched the holes not burned them and that might be the difference as a burnt hole might melt the fibers and keep them in check….where as punching the holes leaves the flossy i stopped trying to get felt to stay in place….
what ever you do you want to prevent anything from touching the pellet….not all fender washers are created the same…and they may differ from brand to brand…
you want to make sure everything is centered…but this is what grind my gears….even if you do center your baffels…airforce frames very greatly in inner diameter….and if you happen to have one of those oversized frames…then when you tighten the barrel in it gonna be ofset from the centered washers and then you get clipping….
a .308 or or even .350 isnt gonna change the sound much compared to .25 all though when trying to get that last tiny bit of sound away you ofcourse wanna keep things as tight as possible
Waaaay back in the day before our TAF, the dead TOG and even before the MSN TOG, there was a Talon forum that was part of James Kithing’s Yellow forum. Had to be about 8 years ago.
There was a post about “Mikail’s Pickle”. Anyone remember this?
He used a 1″ diameter springs cut in sections and 1” fender washers with .25 holes.
What was special was he took 1″ felt pads and stuck them to each side of the washer and used a soldering iron to burn holes through the felt.
This really improved the sound suppresion.
I found some old ones in my shop and took a pic.
Good luck,
Tony
Steve,
A drop of blue loctite will take care of that
So as I was disassembling my SS, I noticed that the four set screws that secure the barrel bushings were loose. Do you guys use loc-tite on these screws?…or what?
Thanks guys. That makes sense. Now it’s time to void my warranty. I sure noticed a big difference when I removed the four washers/baffles. I don’t know why, but I love the idea of a quiet gun. I have this compulsion to minimize the report as much as possible. I guess we all do, huh?
I drilled 4 holes 1/8″, but 7/64″ might be better, reason is you need to drill between the rail 1/8″ is a tight fit. Mark the front of the foregrip sp as you don’t drill pass this mark. Make a mark 3/4″ in front of the rear bushing hole, now your beyound the bushing, and 1/2″ spacing from there. This will quiet your rig by quite a bit more, afterwards leave the forearm off and take a shot. Alot of air comes out those holes. Hardest part about this is the burrs made on the inside, sharp bit and a good file will help alot.
If you are clipping then by all means drill them out. And while I have not done so, I know drilling vent holes under the grip will decrease the report. The enitre idea is to give the air someplace to go beside out the front.
I have been noticing minor innaccuracy in my SS. So I disassembled my baffle assyembly. I found that there is minute evidence of clipping on all washers, (I have used four of them). The original ID was 0.276″ and now I am measuring 0.280″. Cygnus recommends drilling them out to 0.308″, is there a recommended diameter? Or, is each gun different and must treated as such?
Also do you guys recommend drilling four small holes in the frame under the forearm to vent the ldc? If so, what diameter?
As always, thanks for the input.
.25 can be too little in shrouds as any extension adds a bit of offset…i wuild drill them to .308 then
but as YN says the .25 have worked fine for me
you will never get it it 100% quiet, the reason my videos you hear the hammer is that is a mechanical noise that travels through the frame and into the camera, overpowering all other noises…my rifle still makes a shot sound…..how ever not loud !
thing to consider is:
lets take a rifle with no shroud or ldc say a condor….it will go bang at 30 fpe, both shooter and reciever hears it clearly
an unmodded SS will at 30 fpe be alot more quiet….but the sound is still recogniseable by game and neighbourgs…for the shooter the sound is often just like the condors sound….but in the recieving end, it is much less
with baffels in an SS this changes, the sound changes pitch and caracter….all of a sudden it doesnt sound like a shot…plus it gets lower….the shooter can hear the difference…and the reciever will at 5-10y have a hard time telling whats going on….often the reciever will not hear the shot but will hear the pellet fly by
sometimes shooting the rifle it all sounds loud….but try and get someone else to shoot and step 5 yards away….
a funny test i did in denmark was firing my .308 condor…at 200 fpe…with a huge LDC on it …..shooting it was rather loud high pitched sound….i then walked 100 yards out…and only heard that classic silencer pffft from the movies as the slug flew by…i know the sound so i recognised what was going on….but to a person that has never heard that he would prolly guess a bee or something, the shot it self was not heard….quite cool
the hammer slap is in my oppinion not that big a problem, as noone but you will ever hear it….stand a bit away and its gone
in the SS i dont think its possible to make a pickle that will strip all sound….within the frame, an extension is needed…but it can be quiet enough that you can shoot it in suburbia, and the neighbourghs wont notice the shoot, the pellet slamming into the target is going to be the prominent sound
….wich brings us to silent targets…airduct clay…its awesome…silent…i have 100’s of shots into 4 bars of it…i kneat it once it a while to close holes…i havent removed any lead…and it works fine…plus no lead dust from impacting a metal target if your shooting indoors…this stuff is really cool….in 4 inches…it will stop a .308 at 150 fpe, my .45 it stopped till i reached about 350 fpe….the i had to turn it and shoot it lenghtwise…and even at nearly 600 fpe…it wont go through…the klump of it i have is allways just lying on something…so that it can move….if its fixed you might need a bit more
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Thats why i got rid of the spring and went with the 3″ pvc drilled all around and wrapped with the scotch brit pad. The pad would eventually scrunch up and work its way through the coils of my spring as well. The PVC is the same diameter of the spring one would use with a pad. The felt washers has me thinking though. I don’t know sooner or later i gotta think the material would break down. Any know how long the felt washer assembly works? I can see the advantage of it but not at the cost of clipping 300-500 shots later.
Steve if you bushings are out of alignment high and to the right? funny how that is the exact opposite of the set screws 🙄 . Back off on the set screws a bit and see if that fixes things. Note how far you back them off. When you apply the blue locktite crank it down like you do and back them out to the predetermined position. Another guy wrote about the same thing and ended up drilling out the threads of the bushings making the barrel more of a free floater. If anything have someone cut in a o-ring groove in the bushing, this has been suggested more then once. I think it would be a good seler if someone were to do this. I’d purchase a pair, you’d have a free floated barrel. Thing is odds are the ID of the frame may not be perfectly concentric, so a custom set of bushings which are perfectly round you’ll still be where you started. My frame/bushings are similar, i just don’t tighten all the way down. Good luck, sounds like you really caught the bug.