Washer size makes a big difference

Home Forums AirForce Talon/Talon SS Washer size makes a big difference

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  • #937
    triggerman
    Participant

    in sound reduction I’ve found. I made a post lower down from this one yesterday with no replies as yet, about my gun going haywire after shooting some different brands of pellets through it. I thought I might have had a clipping problem with the 1/4″ fender washers I had installed along with the baffles.

    I removed the 1/4″ washers and installed some w/ a 7/16″ hole and WOW, did it become loud. For whatever reason yesterday after shooting 25 or so Kodiaks through the gun again, my grouping came back around.

    Today, I took it apart again and re-installed the 1/4″ washers and could not believe how much quieter it became and accuracy is still holding. Guess the lesson is, don’t stray away from the Kodiaks again.

    #30271
    opok
    Participant

    Change is good, if you can handle all the crazyness that comes with it! Stick with the Kodiacs. Very consistent ammo. Beware of dirty pellets, they can raise all kinds of hell!

    #30293
    knifemaker
    Participant

    I have found cp’s to be very accurate in my .20-ss. But when I switch to the K’s, it wont group very well untill I have put at least 10 rounds thru it Then the Ks’ do just fine. When I switch back to Cp’s, it stays on target with no change. ???????????.

    #30294
    riffraff
    Participant

    Kodiaks are tempermental in my gun too. I think every pellet must leave a small fouling deposit which eventually leads to consistency. Different shapes and lead alloys leave different patterns in the barrel, and of course no barrel is the same so… results may vary.

    A perfectly clean barrel is only consistent for one shot, which is why you have to shoot a couple rounds to get a clean barrel shooting correctly again. Same thing sometimes happens when switching pellets, the fouling pattern needs to re-develop.

    #30347
    knifemaker
    Participant

    Makes sense!

    #30362
    bodhisdad
    Participant

    Most would agree with the fouling pattern seen in some pellet changes. I’ve experienced the same with my TSS. Don’t forget some pellets will never shoot well out of an AF rifle or LW barrel hard to say weather its a combination of the gun and barrel or a single phenomena, like barrel twist rate, or how the barrel is mounted in our guns. A persons best bet is find two or three pellets which shoot well and stick with them. CPs, JSBs Predators, Beemans Kodiaks, field targets specials, believe it or not Gamo’s hunters shoot well for me. Eun Jins are good if you can get them up to speed, in a stock TSS they shoot all over the place, get them to 850/900 fps or so and they shoot well, probably the best pellet, weight combo for the Condor. I only buy Kodiaks and JSBs or one of the relabeled brands like wolverines for BSA. Airguns of Airizona has their own label which is rumored to be JSB as well. I have tried out alot of different labels only to find out after 20 or so shots that the pellet is junk silver arrows, ram jets are two which are unreliable at distance. Any of the crossmans other ten the CPs seem to be junk. JSB’s predator pellet is the most accurate pellet i’ve ever shot, but @ $13/14 for a tin of 200 they better shoot well. All experience has been with the .22 calibur, .177, .20, .25 pellets and accuracy will vary.

    In concerns to shooting new pellets through your gun its a good idea to have them lubed. I have a empty tin which has a sponge from the predator pellets. I have this sponge saturated with gun oil FP-10 set in the bottom of the tin, in goes the pellets i’m going to shoot, or test, on top goes the other sponge also with some oil applied to it. Put the lid on and shake lightly so as to coat the pellts with the oil. This helps alot with friction and fouling of the barrel.

    Alot of variables come into play in concerns to pellets and accuracy. I for one woud like to see a o-ring groove cut into our barrel bushings for a free floated barrel, maybe the bushing held with one grub screw (bottom) with no thread in the bushing. More like a peg or dowel type of fit, just to keep the barrel from moving forward or backward. I believe this would help alot with the frame flex issue and some other inaccuracy issues we commonly see. The current 2 point fixed barrel is geomectricly wrong from the start and can’t help accuracy. I look at it this way, we have a circle frame, bushing and barrel and 2 securing points 90 degrees to each other?? Wouldn’t 180 degrees be a better bet? Or the above mentioned free floated method be a more accurate way of keeping the barrel in place?

    Well, i could go on, but have thrown out some ideas for you guys to try. Lube your pellets and you’ll see better accuracy guaranted, keeps your barrel cleaner as well. Anyone with the capability to cut a o-ring groove for a free floated barrel, i’d like a set to try and test out with a securing grub screw on the bottom. I would think our stock bushings would be just fine as they would now not come into contact with the frame. The o-ring would absorb any inconsistencies in the frame or bushings. Let me know what you guys think after trying some of this.

    #30366
    walkonking
    Participant

    Bod,

    There was a guy who was making bushings with Orings but I never heard if they performed any different then the stock bushings. A good amount of frame flex is occuring in the breech cut out. I would like to see a nice trigger guard grip combination that would reinforce the bottom of the frame under the breech. I was thinking of making one but my gun is shooting so well I dont want to Murphy’s Law it!

    #30368
    bodhisdad
    Participant

    I have something drawn up on a piece of plywood, full stock. I was going to leave the trigger guard open, do you think a closed section would help? Attaching points would be standard grip screw location and the current trigger guard screw hole with a free floated foregrip extending out from there. Its a very sound design i think in terms reinforceing the frame, i think it looks pretty slick. I’ll send you a pic of the full drawing. Its to scale. All i have to do is cut out the template from the drawing which has the frame, tank and scope rail drawn on as well. Been working on the design awhile. I know where the week point is now as you do, the design i believe would really reinforce the frame. I’ll snap a pic later today and send it too you. Been working on the grip and foregrip for it but in 2 pieces, just trying to settle on a design which is funtional, good looking and easy to reproduce.

    #30381
    riffraff
    Participant
    quote WalkonKing:

    Bod,

    There was a guy who was making bushings with Orings but I never heard if they performed any different then the stock bushings. A good amount of frame flex is occuring in the breech cut out. I would like to see a nice trigger guard grip combination that would reinforce the bottom of the frame under the breech. I was thinking of making one but my gun is shooting so well I dont want to Murphy’s Law it!

    Gentlemen, I have been attempting to design a reinforcment like you are describing, but my skill with aluminum just isnt up to par.

    I think a one-piece stock from buttpad to forearm is the way to go. The way I see it, the only human contact would be with the stock, and if built rigid enough you wouldnt be able to transmit any flex to the gunframe.

    My most accurate rifle is one that has a stiff laminate stock, and solid but limited bond to the action.

    Bodhisdad, I do not know if you can free float the barrel with o-rings. I see what you are describing in my head, but I cant see how the barrel would not move from the sight plane if the frame is flexed. When the frame flexes, the scope moves too. If the barrel remains stationary wouldnt the two planes move apart?

    I have wondered if the bushings were pulled into the top of the frame tube, instead of pushed by the setscrew, if the barrel wouldnt be more likely to follow the scope a bit more if the frame is flexed? The way I see it, the bushings are then solidly attached to the same side of the frame as the scope is. I have a few sets of barrel bushings, and I am considering sacrificing a set by tapping another hole 180° from the grub screw.

    The only reason I havent yet tried this, is I dont want to weaken the gun frame with more holes in the top rail.

    #30394
    bodhisdad
    Participant

    If it was pegged with a grub screw i’d think it would be OK. I’ll post a pic of what i have drawn up, it would defineately take care of the frame flex, which was goal 1, then 2 it has to be pleasing to the eye, 3 be relatively easy to fabricate 😕 . I’m doing the grip and foregrip i have planed for it now. The whole stock would be 25-26″ or so maybe skeletonized, but not necessary, more for decoration. I have a Walnut blank for it, i may cut it out this weekend depending on the feedback i get from posting the pics. May also close the trigger guard for added rigidity?? I’ll try to get the pics up later tonite.

    #30397
    riffraff
    Participant

    I will be looking foreward to seeing that Bodhisdad when I return. I may be away from the internet til the 2nd 🙁 😡 .

    I may try to fashion a laminated stock from some nice hardwood plywood I have in the backroom. Shouldnt be too hard to lam this stuff together just the right width to sandwich the lower rail section of the frame nice and snug.

    I could cut all the pieces out on my scroll saw, and glue, pin, and clamp it till it cures. Wouldnt be too hard to sand the features in afterwards.

    #30447
    bodhisdad
    Participant

    I’ll post them in the general area

    #30449
    skybones
    Participant

    Adam ,doesn’t your grip frame do that? I haven’t seen the pix lately(hint hint) ,but I thought it extended well past the cut-out. Happy New Year all,

    #30480
    mikemv
    Participant

    Triggerman,
    Found about the same thing re. opening size but as noted one needs to try to keep things centered. A good stripping device helps a bit as well along with muffling material. Course there are all sorts of way to configure.

    #30575
    bodhisdad
    Participant

    I have found some felt/foam 1/4″ thick i’m going to try and stick to my washers and see if i get any improvement. Right now its pretty quiet. Like Black ops said So many different configurations and combos sooner or later if you play around enough you’ll find the one which works for you. I’ve als bought some nicer fender washers with the same 1/4″ hole as the others, if they are a true 1″ wide i may not have to drill them out them i will apply the felt/foam furniture pads to them to muffle the setup further, will likely drill through it and singe with a lighter to get rid of stray felt foam. Should work out well. I always have 4 or 5 projects going at once, keeps me interested.

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