The Ultimate longe range Condor
Hi guys
I have become obsessed with improving the Condor for long range shooting. Copping too much flak from my powder burning mates and wanna show them want a condor can do.
Here’s the thing.. i just did a little bit of reaserch on here and came up with some interesting idea’s. The problem with an airgun is the pellets, they are just not good enough for long range.. 100+ yds. I had the idea of machining up a .17 centrefire barell with the right twist for my condor to shoot 25gr .17 bullets. These have a BC of .1 as apposed to a Eun jin .22 at .35. Heres the interesting bit.. using chairgun i plotted some ballastics between the 2. here’s my results below.
.22 Eun jin 28gr BC .35 zero 50yds
.17 bullet 25Gr BC .1 zero 50yds
Drop retaining velocity retained energy
@25yds
.17 -.32″ 969 FPS 52 FP
.22 -.15″ 915 FPS 52 FP
@50yds
.17 .0″ 941 FPS 49 FP
.22 .0″ 836 FPS 43 FP
@100yds
.17 -6.84″ 882 FPS 43 FP
.22 -9.57″ 700 FPS 30 FP
@150yds
.17 -24.6″ 829 FPS 38 FP
.22 -36.98″ 585 FPS 21 FP
@200yds
.17 -58.86″ 779 FPS 33 FP
.22 -87.76″ 490 FPS 14.9 FP
now lets change things a little, and concentrate on .17 bullet.
.17 25gr bullet MV 1100 FPS zero 60 yds muzzle energy 67 FP
@25 yds -.37″ 1065 FPS 63 FP
@50 yds .33″ 1032 FPS 59 FP
@100 yds -4.6″ 970 FPS 52 FP
@150 yds -27.72″ 889 FPS 43 FP
@200 yds -42.70″ 856 FPS 40 FP
@250 yds -80.16″ 805 FPS 35.98 FP
I think these figures speak for themselves ! 😯
I am determined to make this a reality and do some real world testing. Forget about exotic gases and the like, a standard condor with a replacement .17 centrefie barrel will give the 1100 FPS. All i need is a twist rate that would stabilize the bullet, Anyone have any idea’s?
Then of course you could go the next step and use a bloodnog or Talontune’s valve and mod hammer weights etc etc. I believe a 1400FPS Muzzle Velocity is achievable, and by using .17 bullets they will stabalize through the sound barrier and back.
Only problem ive found in .177 barrel is tank dump. I machined a .177 airgun barrell 18″ to fit my condor but on full power PW 12 the vavle dumps all the air, i have even seated the pellets deep into the barrel and still the problem persists. Any idea’s on how to stop this happening? It will surely be the same problem with .17 bullets as well. I think i read the valve spring needs to be stiffened?
Any idea’s??
All Replies
What would be a good barrel to shoot .22 bullets out of?
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/(S(5rhlgp4545gbnx45bl52sb45))/categories/tableList.aspx?catID=14&subID=142&styleID=483
link above is incomplete unless you copy and paste
Home > Gun Parts > Barrels for rifles, pistols & smoothbore guns > Barrel liners
this is the drill down you need to get to.
Great people to deal with and a great product!
Walter….
Where do you get them barrels voltar? any web site?
barrel length will be determined by available air. So if the valve can feed it 30″ is going to extract a lot of energy from that push.
What’s the maximum barrel length on a condor? I mean, there’s got to be a point where the air pressure stops behind the pellet and all the extra length is doing is slowing the pellet down. But what length does that happen at?
Track of the Wolf
25 ACP barrel liner sold by the inch.
30″ would be about $140
Walter…
I hear ya chad….
Where can i get me a 26″ or longer barrel???
Must….resist……urge to….buy……25….barrel. Feel….weak….and…unable….to fight…much….longer.
I am utterly amazed at how some conjecture a super performing Condor with heavy bullets at 1100fps, heck 1600fps whatever……. WOW
when in reality Condors are shooting considerably lighter pellets at the 1100fps and might shoot feathers at 1600……
Where is teh real data???? cold hard facts???????
BTW bullets stabilize with rpms not turns per foot. So a pellet at 800fps is spinning at 4000rpm….. might do the trick……
Just finished blowing water jugs away at 150 yards with .25 Condor. Then I thought what kind of energy 31 gr Kodiak still have at that range. Put all the numbers together, BC is .037, 150 yards, muzzle energy 73 FPE. Turns out that slug still carries 26 FPE at 150 yards! I’ll be damned. With right weather conditions, a rabbit-size animal won’t have a chance, even at 150 yards. Even at 200 yards, a Kodiak still have 17 fpe left, but I’ve set my limit with 150 yards. Anything beyond that deserves .204 or a good ol’ .308
That twist rate Martin is for an 80Gr .224 bullet. These are an exeptionally long bullet and would be of no practical use at 800 FPS. Idealy we are wanting a high bc BULLET OF 30 TO 40 gr Max.
We can make .22 bullets in 40 GR weight that would stabalise pretty well in our 1-14 twist barrels. remember a .22 rimfire stabalises the 40Gr bullet at 1080 FPS in subsonic loads.
The other option, if we are chasing the highest BC possible is to make .177 or .20 bullets that would be very long for there weight and diameter. An example would be the 40 Gr .20 bullet that has a BC around .27. This would have excellent Tran sonic stability, but would not yeild such a great difference in retained energy at 100 Yrds compared to a rimfire shape bullet of .22 Calibre in 35 or 40 GR weight. The other issue we have to deal with is the sound barrier and what velocities we can obtian with these bullets. If for example 1200FPS is the maximum spped available in a 40GR, then that bullet will slow down very rapidly. In fact a bullet shot at 1000 FPS at 50 Yrds would be travelling faster and be more stable in flight as it has not passed through the sound barrier. So it is very possible that in long range 100YRDS + shooting a 950 FPS bullet will hit before a 1200 FPS bullet. To overcome this we need to drive the bullets much past the sound barrier similiar to a powder burner. I would hazard a guess that a 40GR bullet at 1400 FPS would be a better option, even though the extra “range” would not be so great compared to the increased initial velocity.
If youve read through my ramblings, well done ! I kinda confused myself by the end ! 😕
Seriuosly though this is a very cool project and one that alot of guys have interest in. Imagine if we could get 2000+ FPS with 25Gr bullets?? That would exceed .22 magnum and be very close to a .17 HMR. I think that one day this will be a reality. The more guys experiment, then the more advances we will see. I cant remember the author of the post but in it a guy had his condor shooting 1200 FPS with the 28GR eun jins. I think it was with a heavier hammer and some polishing, the valve was standard. With a Bloodnob Valve , polishing and heavier hammer weights we could very well see 1500 FPS with the eun jins ! Thats when we need the air bullets !
A 1-9 twist@3000FPS equates to a 1-2.4 twist@800FPS.
I don’t see how you could stabalise a bullet at 800FPS!
Simply not enough velocity/spin! 🙁
the twist rate of our air rifles is 1-14 as aposed to standard 1-16 rimfire twist barrel. A 1-9 twist is suiatble for the 60 to 80 Gr bullets shot out of a .223, but thats at velocities of 3000FPS and above, a bullet of that weight wont stabalize in standard 1-12 twist .223 barrels at 3000 FPS. So i would guess it would not stabalise in our 1-14 twist at 800 FPS, i couldnt see 50 or 60 gr slugs shooting faster than that in an air rifle.
I think 40 gr bullets yes as that is close to rimfire velocities in a condor, mind you a heavily modded one. A 30 or 35 gr air bullet makes more sense, and looking at the corbin stuff you can hollow out the back so as to make the bullet longer for a given weight and it would perform like or better than a rimfire bullet.
i’ll have to do a lot more reading !
In powderburner .22cal, Sierra makes an 80 gr .224; they recommend a rifling twist rate of 1-7. they also make a .224 dia 90 gr. and recommend a 1-6 twist barrel. The 80 gr has a BC of .393 below 1800fps.
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If’n it was me I would get the LINER-22-CEN due to its 1/2″ o.d.
Next would be the LINER-22-MED
I would then custom swage the bullets to match the barrel for a 0.002″ larger than bore and 0.001″ larger than rifling for a driving band
so 0.221″/0.225″
May have to get one of those 30″ long 🙂