The thread that got us banned from the TOG

I got this copied seconds before Don deleted it. These are the last words we had a members of the TOG.
So read it here and catch up.

Dragon
Owner Operator

Joined: May 15, 2005
Posts: 584
Location: Hawaii
Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 4:12 pm Post subject: post

The rule breaker will be gone. The other guy didn’t just make someone mad, he refused to conform to the rules. He also attempted to “manipulate the other person (me) to maintain his way of doing things.

I am don’t really need a fairness sermon.

Don
Back to top

Yellow Ninja
Post Hound

Joined: Nov 09, 2004
Posts: 3508
Location: North East England
Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 6:09 pm Post subject:

On the topic of being a freindly place and speaking of sermons, I dont think lama needed a sermon on modern family values either, but he got one, and it was much much less polite than mine. He was the “Victim” in that incident, and you then publicly berate him just because he chose not to take offense on an INTERNET FORUM.

If someone on here makes statements about my wife I’d probably shrug it off and probably ignore that person. If they make them in person then I’ll certainly deal with it differently and the fact is, most people wouldnt say such things to my face so I wont have to deal with it. I’m certainly not going to jump on the internet toughguy bandwagon….

Would you have prefered lama to start cursing and fill your site with vile sentiment and filth? Would that have solved the problem?

This is an Airgun Site, not a discussion of modern values and the erosion of society… so the tirade wasnt even on topic.

Deleting the posts was entirely valid, but to berate someone in public…. no way.

Plus Denskin had more than adequatly and politly explained the situation and his sentiments already.
_________________
Oggy Oggy Oggy
Back to top

denskin
Chief Moderator

Joined: Feb 19, 2004
Posts: 1112
Location: Aluminum Boat Capitol of the World
Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 9:07 pm Post subject:

Ninja that is your opinion and your welcome to it. Just remember if you will that Llama asked the question if anyone else was upset about the Teflontron and Walkonking post. He also stated his opinion, that he thought it was funny. If you recall I asked you if you thought it was acceptable. You said you would take a look at it, but If I was offended to delete it. I have to assume that you looked and thought it was ok. Therefore I did nothing and did not delete it. For some reason you have adopted the attitude that only you can have an opinion. My answer to LLama was my opinion, just like his and now yours. I suspect for some reason you are trying to start some crap, maybe in an attempt to get banned, you openly tried this once before. So if all of this is giving you a good laugh, yuck it up, and move on.
_________________
Oh Man !! Did I do that ?

http://www.airguns.net/calculators.php
http://www.stealthresource.org/home.htm
http://www.onlineconversion.com/

Back to top

Yellow Ninja
Post Hound

Joined: Nov 09, 2004
Posts: 3508
Location: North East England
Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 9:53 pm Post subject:

He asked for an opinion if anyone else was upset by it, I do not recall him asking to be lambasted.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Maybe I’m just a bit more vocal than most….

I want to point out that I’m not Pro or Anti anyone…. I’m just TRYING to point out some serius problems… problems that I thought were serious enough to warrant me not being a mod and risk being banned if Dons recent pattern is anything to go by…..

I did indeed say I would look at it, I’m sorry I didnt look at it right away, but I had other things to do and I figured you would just delete it yourself if I didnt get to it soon enough.

As for me trying to get banned… I dont recal having tried it again and I dont think I am trying for it this time. It is my recollection that you have had many open disagreements with members after which you have either quit or threatened to quitso your certainly cant throw any stones in that regard.

I like you, I like Don and I like Tony…… I dont like that Tony was not only banned but also Deleted. I dont like that this occured without any mention of it to his “Chief Moderator” or any of his other moderators as far as I know before it happened.

We have a good set of mods, Don consistantly and regularly chooses to either leave them out of the loop or make decisions that go agaisnt what the majority of sane minded individuals would do or suggest and if he would only choose to go to them, use their experience then I’m sure the forum would be a much nicer place to be that would also tie into the direction he wants to take it. He would be flooded with suggestions that would make sense and help rather than incite and divide.

Right now it seems to me that Don is the worst offender of what he is trying to weed out. He makes decisions with a hair trigger, makes posts announcing them that are very accusatory and inflammatory, and then deletes them when someone dares respond and then deletes all the following posts that people make after the fact trying to figure things out.

I dont know exactly what was said between Don and Tony, but to delete his threads is silly, all that information lost. “Luckily” most of the old info had already been lost so it isnt that bad… but imagine if we still had all your posts Dennis, and then Andrew had ever choosen to delete them along with your account? You asked for that to happen once and luckily Drew never did anything about your posts, he just locked your account.

I gotta go…. works over.
_________________
Oggy Oggy Oggy

Dragon
Owner Operator

Joined: May 15, 2005
Posts: 585
Location: Hawaii
Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 1:07 am Post subject: post

I’ll start off with A266 as it seems to be a real sore spot. He is gone and he will remain gone. As far as deleting his post I feel I mainly deleted “Talon Tunes” as far as deleting anything of substance I don’t see that I did. A266 is not a Talon/Condor god. We lost far more tech people due to Tony’s monopoly allowed on TOG and technical info in the crash then when I deleted A266 and his stuff, no major loss.

I have read comments of how strict the site is now, how we could do “anything” here before. “Doing anything’?? I have been to several other sites (airgun sites) and I don’t see everyone acting the way folks were acting here on TOG before I took over. I saw chaos, people having no respect for anyone else, cussing and swearing, there was no technical information being shared. It was conversation about nothing much to do with airguns.

I put up with a lot of crap when I stepped in and started making rules. I am still having to take crap from a few that continues to speak their piece about their disageement of how I run the site. I get criticized for deleting the gallery, it wasn’t working correctly it wasn’t serving its purpose, except eating bandwidth. I prefer that there be no threadjacking but caved in as it seemed most felt it okay. You wanted to be self-moderating it was working so I let it be. But if you remember It was the Tony incidence that created all this havoc we are experiencing right now.

All this crap that is flying around is in fact leftovers from me deleting Tony and his posts (bottom line). Everything was running quite smoothly until that infamous day. Prior to delting Tony I had even posted about how well things seemed to be going on TOG.

As far as consulting with the moderators and administrators about making decisions. I saw very little support publicly to hardly any of my posts from the m0oderators. I got very little feedback from them via PM even. The main people I got any feedback from were YN and Rob. But I only got a gramar suggestion first from YN, then second was suggesting I should have consulted him or the other admins before I deleted Tony or made any other major decisions such as deleting the gallery. Rob has been the voice of calm and reason throughout this whole mess.

Deleting people with a hair trigger? walkon would have been the first one to be deleted as he gave me the most grief when I first came on and he is still here.

The lama incident was crude, the post script to that was to try to let him know she should respect his mother by standing up for her when the crap came out. Perhaps I am a little old fashioned that way.

As far as having this “internet tough guy” attitude I purportedly have. All I have wanted is that TOG treat each other with respect, help those in need (freely), stop the swearing, flaming , and bashing. It seems pretty simple to me as this type of atmosphere would help maintain a free flow of innovation.

I am not Andrew, I am not going to let anyone run over me as I saw happen to Andrew. I will stand up to someones attem[pt to have it their way if I don’t think it is the right way. I don’t mix words, I come right out and you know where I am coming from. You know what to expect, as I will tell you. Yea I have a course way of putting things at times, but you always know where you stand with me. But I will only put up with so much, as would anyonme else.

It costs none of you a dime to come here and participate in this forum. It is here freely for your benefit and enjoyment. But it is not here to be used anyway or to do anything you want while here.

I believe the statement at the bottom of the Home Page sums up how you should act on the TOG.

Regards

Walk on King
Sniper

Joined: Jun 26, 2005
Posts: 767
Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 1:37 am Post subject:

Don,

Since you brought me up. I did not say anything about how to run your site when you took over until YOU ASKED FOR FEEDBACK. I gave you feedback that you did not like but the fact is you actually changed the forum back to the way I suggested in my feedback. If you had made it clear you only wanted feeback from “Yes Men” I would have said nothing. But YOU asked what we thought and I told you what I thought. When you went and made the post were you said the “F” word like 20 times you made it very clear that feedback given that you did not like would be labeled as complaining.

So I no longer took your invitation to “Give me your feeback and suggestions” at face value . There was no point, even though you did return the format and procedures to how I suggested I only got labeled as a complainer.

As for the deleting situation I felt it was wrong and stepped up to defend a fellow TOG member who could no longer defend himself.

And since I have threatened with banishment and deletion if I mention “He whose name must not be spoken”
I will finish by saying Oggy Oggy Oggy Oy Oy Oy
_________________
I take away pain during the week and give it back on the weekends.

TeflonTron
Expert Marksman

Joined: Feb 23, 2005
Posts: 1246
Location: Bleak House
Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 2:01 am Post subject:

Likewise: I offered multiple PMs suggesting how the site could be improved and how I understood that you weren’t a particularly technical person when it comes to running Websites and such, and I also offered my support in fixing things that were broken. I took time and effort to do so, and was rewarded with a curt “thanks” in private and a brusque ignoring of my suggestions in public. After the second or third PM offering advice with no real decent reply I took it that my comments were not welcome, so stopped bothering. In public however, I was labeled a trouble-maker, simply because I questioned why Tony was deleted, and suggested that deleting a person’s account was not the best way to do things.

As for the TOG not costing anyone a Dime, I think that you’ll find that Yellow Ninja, Walkonking and myself, as well as others, have put our hands in our pockets in the past and payed hard cash to support the site, and all three of us, YN especially, have spent many, many hours answering people’s questions and helping healthy debate on the TOG. The TOG did not start the day that you bought it, and there are many members who have contributed huge amounts of time and effort to its running, and dare I say more than yourself, and it is a shame that at least one of those was deleted whilst others saw how things had changed and left of their own volition.

Adam in SoCal aka Walk On King
http://www.talonforum.com