Some numbers stock hammer, cut down hammer, valve mod

Home Forums AirForce Talon/Talon SS Some numbers stock hammer, cut down hammer, valve mod

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 24 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #1499
    rustykfd
    Participant

    Lots of numbers, maybe someone will find something useful.
    12 inch TSS shooting JSB 16g chrono at 21 feet

    Fill 3300
    End 2200
    TH .075
    Stock Hammer
    Valve Mod
    718 PW2
    876 PW8
    878
    873
    874
    858
    857
    856
    861 PW MAX
    859
    854
    856
    851
    853
    850
    840
    834
    844
    841
    832
    830
    824
    824
    822
    814
    815
    810
    809
    804
    805
    804
    799
    794
    793

    34shots 1100psi
    32psi per shot

    Fill 3200psi
    End 2100
    TH.075
    876 PW10
    872
    868
    868
    863
    864
    862
    862
    857
    853
    858
    853
    859
    848
    853
    843
    839
    842
    839
    835
    838
    823
    838
    829
    826
    819
    819
    813
    812
    817
    806
    804
    805
    795
    792

    35 shots 1100psi
    31psi per shot

    Fill 3200psi
    End 2150psi
    TH .075
    866PW6
    868
    864
    868
    855
    858
    852
    855
    851
    841
    846
    842
    843
    839
    833
    831
    826
    822
    825
    817
    825
    816
    813
    814
    813
    810
    806
    805
    807
    805
    796
    793

    32shots 1050psi
    33psi per shot

    Fill 3200
    End 2100
    TH.075
    774 PW4
    815
    843
    857
    876
    872
    854
    868
    874
    878
    870
    873
    867
    869
    867
    867
    865
    861
    865
    863
    853
    852
    855
    855
    847
    849
    852
    846
    841
    832
    835
    833
    829
    829
    827
    828
    814
    820
    815
    814
    811
    808
    805
    807
    802
    800
    797
    799

    50shots 1100psi
    22psi per shot

    Fill 3200
    End 2100
    TH .075 –1/2turn
    PW4
    866
    867
    869
    869
    866
    859
    858
    864
    855
    848
    849
    846
    844
    848
    851
    836
    843
    843
    833
    831
    832
    826
    825
    823
    820
    823
    816
    816
    812
    815
    808
    807
    804
    802
    802
    796
    799
    796
    798

    39shots 1100psi
    28psi per shot

    Fill 3200
    End 2400
    TH .075 –1 1/2 turn
    PW4
    719
    712
    697
    654
    703
    704
    699
    698
    699
    710
    708
    695
    711
    706
    710
    692
    695
    689
    703
    704
    698
    700
    692
    712
    676
    706
    680
    680
    676
    678
    692
    681
    692
    679
    677
    672
    682
    689
    665
    668
    682
    669
    666
    666
    683
    658
    663
    682
    657
    702
    663
    669
    674
    653
    654
    657
    654
    663
    626
    653
    657
    651
    654
    654
    658
    652
    644
    659
    687
    657
    646
    647
    660
    634
    642
    638
    639
    695
    643
    637
    639
    634
    633
    633
    634
    634
    632
    638
    646
    632
    635
    648
    636
    633
    639
    634
    635
    624
    624
    632
    628
    624

    103 shots 800psi
    8psi per shot

    Fill3200
    End???
    PW4
    TH .075 –1 ¼

    854
    860
    856
    856
    857
    855
    854
    852
    828
    849
    846
    854
    844
    839
    843
    844
    839
    842
    840
    834
    835
    834
    832
    830
    831
    832
    808
    602
    826
    832
    832
    829
    825
    823
    823
    821
    818
    823

    38 shots

    Fill 3200
    End 2200
    TH 1 turn out from 0.00
    Stock Hammer cut 3/16 inch shorter (shorter and lighter)
    PW8
    885
    876
    877
    878
    872
    326
    876
    866
    866
    867
    868
    868
    865
    864
    861
    859
    855
    856
    858
    852
    849 PW4
    848
    845
    843
    836 PW2
    834
    493
    834
    830
    829
    829
    827
    348
    377
    822
    820 –1/8 turn TH
    822
    816
    816
    815
    803 –1/8 turn (1/4 total or ¾ out)
    803
    803
    800
    802
    798
    802
    799
    799
    789
    790
    792

    Fill 3000
    End 2200
    Stock Hammer cut 3/16 inch shorter
    TH ¾ turn out from 0.00
    PW6
    855
    858
    852
    855
    854
    322
    852
    854
    850
    432
    850
    848
    847
    844
    845
    841
    844
    842
    842
    842
    839
    836
    836
    834
    835
    830
    826
    830
    835
    822
    829
    824
    820
    320 PW0
    572
    622
    678
    633
    649
    821 PW2
    814
    818
    812
    803
    808
    812
    809
    810
    805
    810
    804
    804
    803
    803
    802 PW4
    800
    800
    800
    796
    797
    795

    61 shots –7 low shots = 54shots 800psi
    14.8 psi per shot

    #33563
    dnc
    Participant

    why did you cut down the hammer?

    #33570
    blackops
    Participant

    Damn Rusty that is A LOT of shooting!!!! Damn I would kill a skunk to have a gun shoot as consistant as yours! I’m still battling with 50+ psi jumps in some shots 😡 it’s coming along but damn…

    I charted your numbers but didn’t put any comments on them in Paint…you can if you want but I LOVE looking at charts now 😆

    Shots 1-149

    Shots 150-290

    Shots 291-441

    Thanks for sharing and the good numbers too! LOVE to see how my gun is compared to others efficiency wise.

    Jim.

    #33573
    rustykfd
    Participant

    Wow, thanks for the graphs.

    I cut the hammer down trying to get a curve, vs. just a steady drop.

    I did the valve mod and found that I couldn’t get the curve (up then down) and couldn’t get the velocity to come down.

    I was shooting for velocity in the low 800s and a PW setting of 6 or lower.

    I think I have found that with a curve, I will not be able to turn the velocity down on cue, which is a bummer. The closer I get to the curve I want, the farther I get from being able to manipulate the velocity on demand.

    I did a bunch of shooting with a delrin hammer and found it to be ok with lower tank pressure, but very inconsistent in velocity. I could get 750fps out of 1500psi tank fills. I have a bunch more shots to input, but I am leaving out the bad strings.

    I am on my 3rd tin(500ct.) of wolverines in 2 days of shooting tuning and tweaking.

    The low fps shots are my getting lazy seating the breach on loading, it just pukes out a pellet if I don’t get the o-ring on the tophat.

    Rusty

    #33575
    dnc
    Participant

    Looks good. I did a lot of experimenting with my gun, and Finally decided that I preferred the negative correlation over the curve. Especially for hunting.

    #33580
    knifemaker
    Participant

    Thanks for all that info. A lot of work! Now I have to give it a think!

    MIke

    #33584
    bodhisdad
    Participant

    What does the hammer weigh now? Did you leave in the factory spring, you should have. Did you bore out the spring retainer? Seems a little low on velocity. Buy cutting the hammer down your affecting the springs stroke which is important. I’d think along the lines of a standard hammer length but made of delrin or ali. Get the tophat screwed down to at least .071, .070 and start from there, 15g to 20g hammer should just about do.

    #33595
    rustykfd
    Participant

    I tried a delrin hammer, very inconsistent velocities. I could spend more time and probably get decent results with low tank pressures (1500-2000 fill) but it didn’t seem like I was heading the right direction, so I abandoned this route. I don’t have a scale to weigh the hammer.

    I may still try other hammer options, but this is looking pretty good as it sits.

    Tophat is less than .050

    Valve work includes boring and (tapering entrance) of spring retainer, boring of valve stem, enlarge holes in valve stem, polish and smooth rough edges. I set the return spring (stock) with minimal preload.

    I could get higher velocity, but that isn’t my only goal. I weigh consistency, curve, efficiency, and velocity in roughly that order.

    Rusty

    #33598
    bodhisdad
    Participant

    Yes if your after a curve your going to give up some velocity, probably around 50fps, which is acceptable. Sounds like your on the right path, good to see the tophat screwed in that far, i’ve gotten good results from that along with a lighter spring. Next was to try a lighter hammer combination, but haven’t gotten around to it yet. So many projects so little time. Good to see someone tackleing this, i know it can be done, just alot of trial and error. Keep it up, good luck.

    #33602
    rustykfd
    Participant
    quote Bodhisdad:

    Buy cutting the hammer down your affecting the springs stroke which is important. I’d think along the lines of a standard hammer length but made of delrin or ali.

    Correct me if I am wrong. I am only affecting the preload on the spring, and hammer weight, the hammer is still traveling the same distance.

    By cutting the hammer shorter I have effectively given myself a lower range on the powerwheel (say -2 to 14 vs. 0 to 16) while lightening the hammer at the same time.

    Am I looking at things the right way?

    Rusty

    #33605
    bodhisdad
    Participant
    quote rustykfd:

    quote Bodhisdad:

    Buy cutting the hammer down your affecting the springs stroke which is important. I’d think along the lines of a standard hammer length but made of delrin or ali.

    Correct me if I am wrong. I am only affecting the preload on the spring, and hammer weight, the hammer is still traveling the same distance.

    By cutting the hammer shorter I have effectively given myself a lower range on the powerwheel (say -2 to 14 vs. 0 to 16) while lightening the hammer at the same time.

    Am I looking at things the right way?

    Rusty

    Yes, with a but,,,,,,,,,,, with all my valve mods and tophat adjsutments it has always seemed to me that the most consistent strings come when i have more preload on the spring, like in the 8 range. You could shim the front of the PW out as much as you have taken from the hammer to gain the distance back. Thus you gain extra compression on the hammer spring which might be needed as you lighten the hammer. Yes, the travel is the same but mass x velocity applies, if i’m thinking correctly.

    Also every single modded valve, tophat adjustment i’ve done has rendered the PW almost obsolete in terms of controling velcity. It does help fine tune consistency, but does little to gain or reduce power. So the preload has to be taken into consideration as you shorten it and restrict the compression of the hammer spring.

    #33610
    rustykfd
    Participant

    I agree.

    My experience is showing that the PW is now for tuning, not for velocity control.

    I like a PW setting as low as possible, less cocking effort, I am getting pretty good numbers, I think.

    I am planning to order some extra valve parts and try a couple of different combinations.

    Rusty

    #34027
    rustykfd
    Participant

    I just got a fantastic string. Will post the ##’s in the morning.

    26 shots

    789 up to 804 back down to 788 26 shots!!!!

    Will post the specifics tomorrow.

    #34040
    bodhisdad
    Participant

    That sounds more like it, details friend. Glad to hear your making progress.

    #34042
    blackops
    Participant

    Very nice! can you post a pic of how your hammer turned out? and of course all the details…

    Jim.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 24 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.