Q:

RV1 (or Regulated Valve Mark 1) for AirForce Talon

Hello,

Looks like some of the discussion came here. So I hope I can get some feedback 🙂

I have been designing regulated valve for few days. It has evolved couple of steps but there is still some tweaking to be done. I do believe this version is already doable and should work.

The design is based for Steyr FT regulator which is propably one of the best regs there are currently. There are some good points and some bad points. It’s always a compromise between strength, efficiency, safety, number of shots, manufacturability (huh. is that correct word?) and few other points.

My main goal has been (in this order perhaps)…

1. Safety and strength (will compromise size and volume for extra material thickness).

2. Ease of manufacturing. If I have to make this myself with my limited lathe operating skills it should not have too difficult things or tolerances.

3. Simplicity. If it’s simple it usually works. This will however compromise some userfriendliness. Meaning that I had to leave regulator pressure adjustment inside the bottle so it’s not possible “on-the-fly” but rather ment to be “factory-setting”. You can use special chamber to setup the gun and leave it there.

Here’s the pics from 3D-cad. I will make 2D-blueprints after final tweaking and engineering. Do realize that this is just a hobby for me and I don’t plan to make this for sale – so don’t bother to ask. But if someone is interested in making them I can share the drawings ( let’s say that I would love to get free sample for that 😛 )




The construction may look more complicated than it actually is. I have tried to thought out all manufacturing aspects and avoid anything too complicated. The butt of gun will became little longer (less than inch though). There is still some room for tweaking the size. I believe that the volume could be half the size. For a prototype I wish to leave some room for testing.

Let’s start from bottle (left).

There is a bleeding-valve with tiny hole through it. With this valve you can adjust the regulated pressure up to 140 bar maybe more. (factory setting). The air comes from bottle and enters through the piston to regulator-chamber. When it reaches setpressure piston will close Rear sealing and airbleeding will stop. You fire the gun and valvestem moves backwards and air exhaust via highflow nozzle. Pressure will drop in regulator chamber and spring will move piston right opening bleeding valve again.

I used bellauville springdiscs so that the movement of piston is only approx. 0.2mm. This will save the O-rings. However the stacking of discs will provide more range for moveing. This is because we need some adjustment range for different pressure settings. There is also a venting hole behind spring. If there is small leak over some time period in O-ring the venting still keeps regulator operational.

The bearing ball in the end is one-way valve for standard refill. You refill the bottle through regulator just like normal bottle. Higher pressure in regchamber will open the valve and fill the bottle. When pressure in bottle raises to fillpressure (- something) it will close again. There is a huge force keeping it closed during normal operation so it will be stuckt in its place and not fiddle around.

-mcMike

Mods/Machinists

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Viewing 15 replies - 1 through 15 (of 19 total)

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Not to presume to know jack sh*t about anything but it would seem like there are at the very least several thousands of dollars worth of R&D and many many many many hours of testing and tweaking left on this concept.

There are a *lot* of assumptions made here that would need to be true/falsed, not to mention the thing would take some serious CNC work to put together at the tolerances required.

I would LOVE to see someone take the plunge and build v1, but I bet it would take LOTS of cash and time to push through to a usable (and cost-effective) end product.

(People sitting on this kind of CNC hardware usually don’t have the time, people with the time don’t have the access to the CNC hardware, etc, etc.)

Given that regs are already out there, the question is, would this thing provide more value than the cost of its development?

I only say this from my own experience: a (very) lovely CAD alone does not a working prototype make.

the more i look at this, i think it would make an interesting combo w/ a TTTA. you could then do away w/ the check ball.

If I took these drawings to an engineering firm could they make sense and make it? Also how would u beable to adjust the out put pressure? Could it also be able to cope with 4500psi on in put side?

IIRC McMike disappeared shortly after developing an in tank regulator for the airforce line…

ok Dyotat, i see your next project looming on the horizon 😀 .

… in the design. Has anything been done with this? Especially anything that can work with a Condor?

quote Buba b:

Only just found these, looks the best thought out reg valve by far ive seen (is Marv on the case ? ) right wheres my shed……i may be gone a while gentlemen 😀

Thanks.
It has evolved few steps with the help and tips of people on our local Finnish forum and also people here and TOG. The consept has proven to work. Couple of Finnish people have already made similar regulator but for a different gun.

And yes. Marv is on the case. Haven’t heard of him for a while but I think he is designing his own improved version. Propably something special for his big bore monster 😀

Only just found these, looks the best thought out reg valve by far ive seen (is Marv on the case ? ) right wheres my shed……i may be gone a while gentlemen 😀

Those drawings are fantastic. I hope the inspire someone to take a look at making one.

Thank Mike

Hello guys,

I finalized the design and drawings. Since I don’t have time (nor skills :P) to make this myself I will release the drawings for Public Domain. Thanks to all people in Finnish forum for tips.

I hope this inspires some of you much more skilled valvedesigners than me and someone actually manufactures it. Propably needs some tweaking for O-ring sizes etc. if you can’t find exactly rings I designed for.

If you make them for sale it’s ok by me. I would love to receive a sample though 😉

DISCLAIMER:
DO REALIZE that it’s 200+ bar pressure you are messing with. I take no responsibility whatsoever if something goes wrong so any use of these drawings is at your own risk. In case that wasn’t clear already 🙂

quote mcMike:

quote Shadoh:

If only we could get past the age old O-ring debate in these types of applications. Ive seen them used in many high pressure applications before but eventually they will fail.

I don’t understand where that comes from? But then again I am not too familiar with regulator designs. The original Steyr FT has exactly similar design for piston and I haven’t heard that O-rings are the problem with it. The movement for piston is only 0.2 mm or so because of spring discs. So the O-ring is never actually “moving”. It is just rolling a bit in axial direction. In engineer dimensioning that is not counted as a sliding movement-design yet.

quote Shadoh:

You might add an O-ring to the top hat to get rid of the leaks there that the OEM valves have.

There is O-ring in tophat already. Well, not in the hat itself but in valvestem. No need for another or am I missing something?

The O-ring question comes up allot. Ive always wanted to try it in a limited movement application but others feel that an O-ring would be the weak link. Someone usually mentions it at least once when something like this is posted.

In the top hat. You do show an O-ring in the valve stem but you also get air bleeding past the top hat threads. If you look at the newest valves that Airforce just released even they have added an O-ring under the top hat as well as one on the stem. Custom valve makers have been doing it for a long time already.

quote Airgunner:

Mike,
Wonder if you would be able to design a multi-shot version of the Talon/SS/Condor…you are quite good at coming up new designs, I thought I might see if that would be something you could do on your 3D cad as I know A LOT of peeps on here would LOVE it!!!:lol: 😆 😆

Yeah. I hear you. I have seen dreams of that already 😀 .
But unfortunately I am not Aimo Lahti even though I live in same country.

quote Yellow Ninja:

Anyone looking into making it similar to the lines of how the USFT works… Higher volume at lower pressures…. like the old big bores.

USFT type or Regged type.. both beyond my abilities, but the low presure way seems to be the much better method overall compared to regulators…

That is easy.
Only con is that it will make design longer which I personally don’t prefer.

As soon as we get some protos and testing there will be quite a lot of finetuning for correct size I hope.

quote Shadoh:

Looks great. Gotta love those pics.
The only thing I see right away is you need to shorten the “piston” length. Im sure it was just an oversight but as its drawn there is no room for it to open.

Thx. The piston length is ok. The bleeding valve is adjustable. In the pic it’s in the forward position. There is 3mm adjustment for backwards. That is used to select preferred operating pressure.

quote Shadoh:

If only we could get past the age old O-ring debate in these types of applications. Ive seen them used in many high pressure applications before but eventually they will fail.

I don’t understand where that comes from? But then again I am not too familiar with regulator designs. The original Steyr FT has exactly similar design for piston and I haven’t heard that O-rings are the problem with it. The movement for piston is only 0.2 mm or so because of spring discs. So the O-ring is never actually “moving”. It is just rolling a bit in axial direction. In engineer dimensioning that is not counted as a sliding movement-design yet.

quote Shadoh:

You might add an O-ring to the top hat to get rid of the leaks there that the OEM valves have.

There is O-ring in tophat already. Well, not in the hat itself but in valvestem. No need for another or am I missing something?

Mike,
Wonder if you would be able to design a multi-shot version of the Talon/SS/Condor…you are quite good at coming up new designs, I thought I might see if that would be something you could do on your 3D cad as I know A LOT of peeps on here would LOVE it!!!:lol: 😆 😆

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