polishing the inside of the frame
i remember reading somewhere, that polishing the inside of the frame (not just the barrel) on the area where the hammer/spring slides, greatly improves consistency on these guns.
Has anyone done this? did you get any improvements? and, how did you do it, what tools did you use, etc.?
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Good Post! I have some issues with shot consistency. It will do just fine, then save a shot usually 100 or so fps lower. The next shot will be back up where it should be. For one thing, I think the divers grease on the polished bbl is getting in the frame. Also, AF suggested putting a bit in the frame with a tooth pick. This has to be gumming things up! I need to take her down and strip it all out.
I have some unique polishing supplies here left oner from my cylinder porting days. It is made by a company that makes non woven abrasives similar to scotch bright pads. In several different hardnesses, thicknesses, and more importantly, different grits. I have a roll of white pad that is extremely fine. It is almost like talcum powder that it is impregnated with. It should do a fantastic job of polishing the id of the frame, with no metal removal or dimensional distortion.
I also have some spray graphite lube, that the Carrier leaves a nice thin film of graphite that you cannot wipe off easily, yet the carrier completely evaporates in just a minute or too. I tried it in the frame, and I could notice an instant improvement in consistency and smoothness.
At the moment. I am getting high 980′, to low 990’s with JSB’s with the 18″ bbl. in the SS. I would like to get the Kod’s in the 950 range.
May be a new Condor Valve is needed?
Mike
errr what’s wrong with polishing the inside of the frame? the hammer/hammer spring is really the only thing that touches AND moves on the inside of the frame. Sanding the anodizing off I wouldn’t do but polish it, oh yea. Looks like a project for this weekend since I brought my chordless drill and long wood bit 😀
Bod that is SWEET you picked up 20 fps…did you clean and lube the internals while they were out? Maybe just less friction on the hammer spring helped out?
😆 that piece of masking tape is pretty funny but I swear someone said they took it off and it started “twanking” 😆 I’ll have to test that out this weekend also.
Jim.
I think a caution is needed in doing it. It is important not to alter the tolerances to much and Sky does not want to you take some advice that might ruin your gun. Anything you do just be cautious. As you know once material is removed it can not be put back.
Didn’t know AF used tolerances ❓ 😉
You can’t realy call these from 5 meter throw in fits tolerances. But I just love this rig!
Regards,
Marc
I just took mine off, no real twang, but i have a heavier hammer in as well. 75g’s so that helps with the smack down and recoil action. The blue would be better if you have some around. Its supposed to eliminate spring twang. But as i stated earler i have a hammer which has a guie built in to it. So my spring never makes contact with the walls either. I had a similar post when i first found the tape in mine. 🙄
Is that TAPE!?!? OMFG! I about threw a fit when I pulled out the hammer spring and saw that piece of shitty tape on there! It was still wrapped around one of the middle coils. This was on my new TalonSS. The tape was dry and flaky, and the glue was dried and crumbly. I couldn’t believe it! Then, I find that lots of you have seen this same thing! Un freakin’ believable! I wonder who in the factory authorized that little work-around…
So, now, anybody got a suggestion for what to replace it with? Should I use Painter’s blue? Or is the purple masking tape better? Is there a reason they used white?
Will it void my warranty now that I’ve removed it from the spring? And I haven’t even fired the gun yet!
I’m getting there, slow but sure.
Jim
The body of know how of a group like this or in a larger sense like the airgun community is staggering, when viewed against an individual. I’ve always used the assumption that no one has a corner on good ideas. It’s wonderful when folks share their know how and ideas as many of you have!!
The materials in the area in question appear to be steel, Delrin, and anodized aluminum. The hardest among these is anodizing with a pretty good surface finish when compared to the remainder. There doesn’t seem to be any necessity to polish because the system will work fine as supplied. That’s is not to say it can not be improved upon.
YN mentioned burnishing, which can take several forms in process and was compared to in a sense peening or mass media finishing etc. Certainly one could peen the ID surface but keep in mind it is anodized so that complicates things given that treatment is relatively brittle and hard whereas the subsurface is relatively soft. There are specialized tools that can impart a light to medium peened surface. One of the issues one runs into that working a surface in such a manner imparts stresses, in this case compressive stresses. There are all sorts of degrees that are measured in almen intensity. Just looking at the situation I feel the anodized surface is a good one, albeit maybe it could be a bit smoother.
Smoother is of course relative just as the word polish can have many definitions or contexts. If we were discussing “abradingâ€
In a sense polishing/ waxing is cleaning the junk which has built up over a couple 1000 shots if not more. Not to mention i tried the graphite and don’t believe i got it cleaned as good as it should have been. The way i’m looking at it is i just restored the surface with an added benifit of a wax in the formula???
YN has a very good point, i first tried fp-10 which tends to collect debris. Then it was graphite powder which seemed to gum things up a bit. The clean surface i have now is the best my gun has shot in a long time. Is the “wax” doing its job or is the inside of the frame just really clean? Was always looking for that super slick hammer glide and now i’m right back where i started several 1000’s of shots later
Whatever the case may be, the gained 20 fps just by completely going over it. My barrel is usually kept clean, the trigger group was in need of a little oiling, the brech slide area was in need of cleaning.
YN, i will read the link thanks for posting it.
Its like honing a cylinder wall on an engine, too much gusto with the hone and you have to get larger pistons or live with some obnoxious piston slap, just the right amount of hone and the engine will go back together and run great. Not a job for the inexperienced or unsure.
If your not sure, don’t do it- is always the safest way to go.
I like the YN technique, shoot the hell out of the gun and wear it in from use. Keeps the warranty too!
Tribology isn’t that the study little fossilized creature? 😆
It doesnt have to be some wonderfully flat and reflective mirror finish.
You just want rid of the high/rough spots. The spring does touch the frame at points and will eventually create small flat’s and remove the rough parts and any high spots…. Not ALL high spots, but the ones it touches.. and after all, if it doesnt touch the high spot, it isnt a problem is it.
The hammer will also create these flats on the frame, and the frame likewise will create them on the hammer… Unless you have delrin and then it doesnt much matter.
If you read the article I posted you will see that a burnished finish is stronger than a regular machined or polished finish. The anodization wont be removed anymore than a light polishing will remove it. Your not abrading, your pressing on the surface, this is especially true in the limited effect that just letting the components themselves do the work.
All I’m saying is that these parts will wear in with use and time……
I think more harm has been done by people over polishing and lubing their guns than just letting them be.
This is part of what happens when an engine… or a springer or anything mechanical wears in.
Even if you polish the inside the frame… where it touches the other metal parts, they will burnish each other.
Its my understanding, observation that the spring makes little to no contact with the inner tube. If it did there would be more signs of wear on the anodized surface. MAybe in stock form this is the case. I have a 75g hammer with guide and the PW has its guide. If the inside could be burnished it’d be a good thing. If the inside was being burnished wouldn’t the anodization be removed, at least in areas of contact? I noticed very little loss of the anodized surface in my frame, upper portion of brech each side of brech handle slot.
Polish the spring and shoot the gun….
How would u do the inside of a 1″ tube?
http://www.pfonline.com/articles/web100201.html
Sometimes called “ball-burnishing,” burnishing produces smooth mirror-like finishes on surfaces ranging from matte to polished. In addition, as steel media presses on a part, the working action imparts compressive stress, and its surface becomes work-hardened. The process often can replace steel shot blasting as a work-hardening step. Parts processed with steel media have longer cycle lives and greater resistance to wear as a result of this compressive stress action.
As an added benefit to its cleaning and burnishing capabilities, steel media enhances plating operations. Prior to plating, parts that may appear smooth often are marked by micro-imperfections, which can distort the plating process. The weight of steel media flattens these minute irregularities and prepares a surface for satisfactory plating.
I dont know what it is… without looking it up… but I will agree that Mike is a wealth of knowledge and we are lucky to have such a resource here…
😯
There are very few people who know what the science of tribology is (without doing a search)!! I am impressed every time you open your mouth! 😀
I dipped my spring in some liquid rubber stuff. Cures to an even//thin coating.
It’s called “Plasti Dip”–Home Depot, paint dept. ~$7–the can is the same size as a tall can of beer. 8)
I never really noticed much “twang”–but what the hell. I now have peace of mind. 
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Mike,
One of the things I noticed when I would get the odd “off speed” shot was that the bolt wasn’t all the way back. Usually this happened because I repositioned, or was lazy and didn’t make sure it was back against the tophat. My cocking knob also was binding on the frame.
Since I’ve been more conscious of what was going on, I haven’t had any bad shots in quite a while.
I like your spray graphite idea. I’ve been using some dry teflon spray from One Lube (I think). Awesome stuff, goes on liquid, dries like powder. Good for lubing pellets too.
Jim