Need an engineer here

I have in my feeble old mind, a design of a baffle system inside the shroud to help muffle the sound of a shot. In micorsoft paint, I drew out a very oversized rough design, and need input if you think it will work, or additional ideas to add to it.

The orange colored ring would be a thick rubber hose, similar to a car heater hose, a hydraulic hose or something like that. The inside black ring is a piece of PVC pipe perforated with holes. The blue blocks would be somekind of spacers to act as bushings to keep the PVC pipe completely steady and inline from the end of the barrel to the opening of the end cap, to keep pellets from clipping.

The holes drilled through the bottom of the rubber hose would allow excess air to be pushed from the hollow spaces between the PVC and rubber hose and out through the frame, where holes are drilled in the frame underneath the forearm.

My thinking is that the thick rubber hose would insulate alot of the sound. I don’t know, what do you think?


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Gafa= Duct Tape 😀

ok first off im glad you folks like the post !

i dont see any problems with posting how to’s on this forum, it might be based in US, but is read by people all over the world where mods are legal….all my knowledge was optained while in denmark…where it was legal at the time

ok enough disclaimer here…some PM’ed me if i would make a mods….no…no and NO i will do nothing of the sort…

small spring with something wrapped around…idea….heres my thoughts….

a LDC with some material in it is better than one without….as long as you keep the material down so it doesnt take all the volume.

closed cell foam is not ideal as it takes away alot of volume, a fluffy material like speeker whool, is to fluffy and will be pulled into the path of the pellet bu the rush of air.

Felt IMHO is too dense, but it will help. and probably best choise.
Fleece where you burn the hairs a bit will work if you use something like curlers to keep it from being sucked into the pellet path

In denmark you can buy some PC soundproofing material made by Noise Control (german company), its a 2 layer fleece….top layer is too fluffy allmost like fleece from a fleece jacket…but second layer is somewhere between jacket and felt ….and this is the best material to date i have found….this material is open, has an adhesive on the back….and soaks up sound really good…..but i havent been able to find it here in the states which doesnt matter as its not legal to make shroud or cans here !

3m scrubbing thingys might work…its pretty open, and intertwined, but im afraid it might be too open….i have never tried it my self !

open material takes less volume than a closed material ! more volume less sound !

you can use springs, curlers, tubes with holed drilled through the sides to keep material out of the pellet path…spring are the best as they offer little resistance to the air before it enters the material…curlers look good also…tubing is probably the worst…but drill it like a madman so theres plenty of holes will work….the bigger holes the more flow….but also bigger chance of the material being sucked through the hole….its amazing how material i wouldnt have thought could make it through holes, springs and make it into the path of the pellet….IT IS VERY IMPORTANT THE PELLET PATH IS CLEAR, IF SOMETHING TOUCHES THE PELLET IT MIGHT SEND IT OFF INTO THE BAFFLING OUT THE SIDE OF THE SHROUD MAKING IT A POTENTIAL DENAGER TO THE SHOOTER AND BYSTANDERS !

someone asked about why i would put 2 or more washers spaced by oring after each other….well….a single walled baffle works ok….2 walls strips more air creating more back pressure keeping more air in the mod…less sound, that is why is use a whole stack of them at the end of the mod…to keep air in.

the first chamber is experiencing alot of pressure, and i would leave that with no material so to have maximum volume while making sure nothing gets sucked into the pellet path…also if your have the bushing drilled…material might block these holes…and when you get a spring make sure it wont block the holes either.

concave washers…in my experience means little, but it does help…too much trouble…..ceiling washers and the like fine if you can keep them aligned with thier odd shape

a cheap shroud…..Home depot sells a broom handle extender….has a blue handle on it…and the tube is rippled…….cut it to length so it reaches all the way back to the barrel bushing….now put a layer of gaffa around the tube until it fits perfectly into the frame…..take the handle…and drill a .308 sized hole through it so the pellet has somewhere to fly out….get a washer that fits inside the tube…the tube tapers slightly….get a dowel and hammer that washer as far forward in the tube as it will go….presto…one shroud 2$ 30 min to buy and make

i will try see if i can find the resonance formula, so we can calculate the best spacing og washers

Forgot to add Great write up as well, CygsX.
Cygs, In your opinion/experience is it better to have a large spring for your first chamber or a smaller one wrapped with a sound deadening material. Also i saw a pic posted of a setup which incorporated haircurlers and the closed cell foam used to cover plumbing pipes. Any thoughts on closed cell foam vs. open cell foam/ air emitting foam? One would help with noise, working as a muffle and the other would do similar though less effecive, but allow for air to pass through.

A guy posted once a while ago about ceiling washers which work great as well. Concave and perforated, can be found in the drywall repair area. Spaced out with o-rings, they worked well drilling the centers out was not fun.

Well we have the internals of a nice lead dust collector layed out. What about hammer slap. With my TSS in stock configuration i can get it to just pellet twack and hammer slap. Anyone one have some input on the hammer slap mod, without loosing any power or is a give and take situation?

Also drill your front bushing and add a few holes to the frame between the bushings on the underside for a decompression chamber. Take care that the foregrip will cover the holes. This adds alot to the end result or effectiveness of any design. Get as much of that air out the back side as you can.

Thanks for the post Cygnus, you said more than I had the balls to say.

quote benfishin2day:

Great info guys………..I did it all wrong 😳

Adam………are you using a shroud from Tony or the method that was just explained??

How can you get rid of the hammer noise???

I am running one of Tony’s shrouds. But when I had my 12″ barrel baffles and spacers kept it rather quiet especially on low.

Great info guys………..I did it all wrong 😳

Adam………are you using a shroud from Tony or the method that was just explained??

How can you get rid of the hammer noise???

With a 12″ barrel and my shroud you hear NO air only hammer. I am running a 16″ barrel and I can shoot all day and the neighbors dont have a clue.

BTW CYGNUS…..Great post!

Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 1:24 pm Post subject:


for a shroud it can be a bit more difficult to baffel it, as there is no bushing to push against unless you run a spring or tubing all the way back to the bushing….the first chamber should start approx 2″ in front of the muzzle….and not be sealed off to the back you want to ustilize all that volume surrounding the barrel all the way back to the bushing.

Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 1:24 pm Post subject:


First what Cygsx has layed out is dead on, your going to have to get some odds and ends parts and just start playing around. The 3″ first chamber is good and effective. If a spring is used make sure it is wide almost 1″ or a 5/8″ wrapped with felt or scotch brite pad muffler if you will. The parts from there on is where you should experimewnt with. I use copper tubing as spacers or PVC 1″, 5/8″, 1/4″.

As of now i’m working on a shroud design using what CygsX suggests PVC schedule 40 or Plastic electrical tubing, black/gray, 3/4″ ID for a pressure fit adaptor and 1″ ID for the shroud. The 3/4″ has to be turned down to fit inside the TSS frame and the 1″ ID shroud. The 6″ shroud will also have to be turned down as well to match the frame. Less then $5 spent on the 10′ lengths. I’ll work out a bafle system over the winter, but this should give you an idea. I saw the pics of your shop, save your money and work the details out yourself as far as a baffle system is concerned. I just need to figure out how to get my 6″ shroud drilled to 1″ID and i’m set, the outside is easy, chuck it and sand it. http://www.onlinemetals will do as well. I will figure it out in plastic tubing then do one in ali, or maybe stick with plastic as its quieter and may be benefical to sound dampening. Although Adam says his is quiet, then its quiet.

GREAT Post Cygnus X.

materials of a LDC….well 3$ for tubing, 5 for plastic parts, 2 $ for spacers 10 bucks…and so what, most people dont have a clue what goes inside, or how to space everything out ! this is where knowledge comes in….and that you gotta pay for !

Bulls eye Bill., 50$….hmm tube less than 3$ endcap 2$,, but then comes painting, making the endcap, mounting the endcap….and so fourth

bulls eye bill shroud does help, the thing with a baffel thats needed between shroud and frame is not entirely correct !

i have seen and tried that shroud, and it takes the bark out of the SS, as well as the condor, is it effective …uhmm its way better than nothing….can it be better YES just mount some baffels in that shroud and it will get much better.

so you want to make a your AF rifle more quiet, well heres the recipe

go to lowes or homedepot, by some washers 1″ outer diameter(for talon SS), .25″ hole, its in a plastic box and comes in 50 or 100pcs…or what ever washers fits your shrouds ID

go to the plumbing department, buy some 1″ OD thick rubber orings about 10 will be fine(if filling shroud get oring that fit ID of shroud)

now we need something to space out the washers, this can be accomplished in two ways, springs or tubing

one thing to keep in mind is the more volume is lost to stuff inside the less effective the shroud is going to get…..tubing…home depost sells a broom handle exstention, thats allmost 1″ OD, its more than 3 feet long and costs 2$, this can easily be sawed into pieces of desired lenght to space the washers….just got to use cut the tubing straight (use a saw box if your like me and cant saw a straight cut)

at the isle where you can buy loose screws theres usually some springs too, different stores different springs…so see what they got they dont have to match 1″ od perfectly you need at least one even if your going to use tubing….the longer your shroud is the more springs you need …you need as many springs as the lenght of your shroud to where it meets the barrel bushing

springs may need to be cut (dremmel is easiest, but a hacksaw can do it too)….to square off the ends heat end till red hot, and press against a flat non flammable surface, the whole spring will become very hot so use some plyers where you can get a good grip…now press against the surface and you will see the metal bending easily and it will hold that shape, try and the the end as square as the facctory made end…doesnt need to 100% square…but the more square the better

what to do with all this stuff

im gonna be talking about the SS here…..take off the endcap, and look donw into the frame and the barrel……you want the first chamber to be the biggest so grab a 3″ spring and drop it in there, now drop a washer, the an oring, then washer, next take your tubing or another spring, this should be less than the first chanber i would say 2″ drop it in….then a washer, then oring, then washer….next chamber should be smaller then the two previous say 1″ so drop a piece of tubing or spring, and then washer, oring, washer…now depending on how much space you have left i would just fill the rest with washers spaced with orings…the frame should so full that when you mount your endcap it should depress the spring a bit so everything is under tention.

and your done…go test shoot it !

stuffing a shroud is done in reverse compared to filling the SS with washers…as the SS is filled from the front and the shroud is filled from the back.

but it is same principle as filling the SS,

for a shroud it can be a bit more difficult to baffel it, as there is no bushing to push against unless you run a spring or tubing all the way back to the bushing….the first chamber should start approx 2″ in front of the muzzle….and not be sealed off to the back you want to ustilize all that volume surrounding the barrel all the way back to the bushing.

the hard part is to get the first washer about 2″ in front of the muzzle, spring or long piece of tubing back to the barrel bushing can do this, or you can try find a plug that fits inside the tube, to which you can mount a screw from the outside to keep it in place.

to make a plug theres several ways to do that….go shop in lowes/home depot see if the got something that can be used….i have seen plastic spacers for various things…that might be suitable…if the outer diameter is to large then mount it in drill and use sandpaper to “turn” the outside diameter down. the hole in the bushing should be large enough for pellet to pass, but small enough that your spring wont fit through it

wood can also be used…get one of those hole cutting drills that makes wooden “coins” and see if that fits…roundstock that fits can also be used…if they are a tad too small some electrical tape can take care of that, just wrap it tightly around

the assemble you stack of washer/oring/springs…and fit the bushing…remember to measure that its approx 2″ in front of the muzzle when everything comes together

how many chambers….rooms, baffels…should there be (not counting space between washers kept appart with orings)..i would say 3 chambers should do it, the size of the chambers should such as none of them have the same resonance as the other(look up speaker building equations)

you can experiment with wrapping the spring in felt/fleece, skubbing spronges…it works much like curtains in a house…imagine an empty house lots of echo….with drapes and carpet the echo disapears and noises are muffled somewhat….same thing in a LDC

quote shaky:

Would you add baffels and spacers to the Frame Extender?

There would be no need to do so, if the extension is made correctly, hammer slap will be your next loud noise to silence…

There are no threaded parts to the extension idea above and no internal baffles or materials to absorb sound, the real purpose is to extend the frame when an 18″ barrel is added to a stock Talon SS. My idea came from parts found in my vast aluminum parts collection.

Anthony’s shroud has a larger volume to further scrub the air charge from the end of the barrel and would be even more effective than the slap together idea I drew above.

Your right Adam. Even if your time is worth nothing, the machinery and tooling is big bucks,not to mention the ($$$) materials waisted screwing up while you learn. Of course accomplished machinist wouldn’t need to buy. Like you said,it can be done with basic tools,and materials. It may not look as pretty,but it will work.

quote Marc:

I don’t want to badmouth someone here but I still think 200 buck is a fairly steep price, for a threaded adapter, ali pipe and some plastic inside. I know machining and baffles are quite easilly made.

But I must admit that Tony’s looks professional!



I hear you Marc….Talon SS $470, Condor $550, Rapid $2000, Airwolf $2200 etc. airgun hobby prices are much higher then a lot of people like. When you compare what you can get in the firearm world for the same price the powder burners think we are insane.

The good thing is we can save some $$$ by making things for ourselves. But to tell you the truth the money I have spent to simply make, caps, concave baffles and obtain perfect symmetry cost far more then just buying the part. And some folk will never have the mills, lathes or time and experience to make stuff for themselves. So for those who simply want to buy one done professionally, they will pony up the dough.

The good thing is there is an option for everyone and if someone wants a shroud it is within their reach one way or another by us helping them with info on how to make it or they can go buy one.

Also try to rememebr that you aren’t necessarily paying for the materials, as much as you are paying for the experience and knowledge of the person performing the work! People think I charge a lot for an air conditioning service call when I charge $50 an hour, plus a $50 “ding dong” service call. BUT if you think of the schooling, training and >15 years of experience I have, and can fix any electrical/mechanical problem within an hour…that is not bad.
If you can’t do something, or don’t have the tools and knowledge to perform the task at hand, then paying someone who knows what to do and how to do it, (and would take 1/10 the time it would for you to waste $$$ and time and still not get it right) is the way to go.


I agree that $200 is rather expensive, I have a lathe and that’s saved me
a LOT of cash for various things like shrouds I’ve made myself compared
to if I bought them from someone else.

$200 seems to be the starting price for shrouds

Ponoma airguns make them for Rapids starting at $225 and other guns
on request.


And Alan Zasadny who doesnt have a website charges $300 + for Rapid
shrouds last I heard.

The only other AF specific shrouds are the Air Hog, which was $175 a few
years ago and now I beleive its $200 and not baffled and he Bulls Eye
Bill un baffled frame xtender thats been mentioned above for less than

Mac-1 used to or still might sell baffles for the frame for the SS.. and they
were $65 I believe… anyone could buy the materials AND the tools to get
some springs and cut them to size, dress the ends properly and end up
with a gun just as quiet.

To me…. as someone who can make his own stuff, even the Bulls Eye Bill
un-baffled extender is overpriced at $40 odd dollars as I could make my
own baffled one for less.

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