Microlite Bullpup Kits for AF guns
This is a project I have been working on for more than a year now.
Transforming an Airforce gun into a Bullpup configured gun.
The result is non-traditional as far as Bull pups go, but it is the same in that it allows for a longer barrel and or baffles without adding to the over all length of the gun.
Instead of Trigger linkage the kits use a new rear action and a bolt extension to move the barrel back behind the hand grip and reach forward to reset the trigger.
The Kit also requires a shorter rear tank like the 13ci on the TalonP and Escape models.
The Kits come with a Delrin constructed rear action complete with bolt extension/breech slide, tank sleeve, thumbhole stock with 18 shot rotary pellet dispenser, barrel mounting sleeve with vented front bushing and short baffle insert with blast chamber and 2 petitions. (3 petitions for the Tss/Condor frames)
It is a true drop in kit that doesn’t require any modifications to your gun as long as its a post 2013 frame. However it does require disassembling the barrel and tank which may void the warranty with Airforce.
Since this is the first public write up on the kits have I’m suppose to mention that there is a patent pending on the concept.
I believe that this approach to a Bullpup configured gun is a novel one.
Having said that I have also noticed when something seemingly new gets posted here Its usually not long before Baz,Blodnob or one of the Brazilian guys throw up some pics where they did the very same thing 5 years ago lol, So
If anyone has seen this approach somewhere else please post it soon and save me some time and money.
I know some of you guys that knew I was working on a AF-ish Bullpup was hoping for a forward mounted tank.
I have a sweet full frame design with a internal HP line forward tank and even smaller rear tank that pulls the barrel back almost 8” behind the hand grip, but It would read on AFs primary patent which is still in effect for another 2 years. So it will be a while on that one.
The kits make for a nice lite, compact very accurate shooting gun. Hope you guys like them.
Here are a couple of videos (The 100 yard video is a Tss conversion) and some pics to explain things further. The pic with the blue background is from some target work Rob in NC here on the forum did. Rob also is doing a review on the kits he will be posting a little later on.
Special thanks to Tony for allowing me to post the info on the Kits here on TAG.
BHG Action
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Currently the kits are geared only for smaller calibers. When the caliber goes up so does everything else. Air consumption,tank size,valve housing,top hat,breech slide. Doable, but not practical. The long barrel would help, but would still need need a forward mounted tank to feed it air or tether it.
A better solution for a 30 cal would be the kind of builds Doug does http://www.talonairgun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=30157
Doug is the master. He has the large cal pellets and cast bullets wired and knows what it takes to make them go. :4:
Thanks, Dave! And one more question, please. I’m eying the Lothar Walther .30 cal barrel blank, which is 28″ long. I’m thinking that a 22.125″, .30 cal barrel, in a Condor SS frame, would be nice. I assume that it would have to be turned to the Talon heavy barrel profile. Is there any possibility of getting that to work with your kit? And if so, could one of your inserts be made/drilled out for .30 cal? Thanks, again.
That would work but, I think It would only hold 2 sound loc baffles. If you do someday do that,then you should cut the breech end so you dont lose the choke.
Here is a pic and a Video of a ML kit with TSS frame, 18” 12mm od barrel (same barrel as on the CondorSS and Escape) 2 sound loc baffles on this build as well.
Video shot is for 100 yards.
So potentially, when I get around to building up a Condor SS, I could install the “upper” portion of your kit and on a 24″ barrel cut the muzzle back , for a total length of 22.125″, relocate the barrel bushings 4.125″ forward, to line up with the frame to bushing screws, and it would work with the guns original sound baffels? Or is it more complicated than that?
4 1/8”
Dave, thanks again for your helpful reply. As for the Condor, maybe I need to build 2x to see which fills my own particular need best. A Talon-P, for now, will allow me to get my feet wet with PCP and it will allow me to shoot in the winter, whereas I’ve been damaging my spring piston gun’s gas-rams by shooting them at -20f. I’ve been shooting airguns since Christmas 1976, but I’ve never shot a PCP gun as of yet, so I’m really looking forward to that. Your youtube video for the Talon-P with and without the insert is very convincing.
I do have a question. How far rearward does the breech end of the barrel move from it’s original position? Thanks, again for all of your help!
At one time I thought about doing CondorSS/24” barrel BP kit build but decided not to since the 24” barrel wouldn’t leave any room for baffling, and while the longer barrel would offer more fps and be more air efficient it still would not offer that many extra shots with the 13ci tank.
It all depends on your particular needs when it comes to investing in an Airforce gun, or any gun for that matter.
A TalonP and a ML kit would be a good fit for you if whats important is a compact,light weight gun with moderate power and shot count, but if high power and hi shot count is most important then you would be most pleased with the TT CFT And drop adapter you mentioned. Just to be clear the ML kits are not compatible with the CFT and adapter.
First of all, thank you very much, Maddog and tagdagger, for sharing all of that information with me. That really helped clarify many things. I did go look for a Talon-P tank and the only one that I can find, that’s available right now, is a “quick detach” type. I have no idea if that will even fit onto a Condor SS frame, or work with these kits. The Airforce website shows the regular Talon-P tank, w/gauge and spinlock, but it’s sold out. If you could let me know if this tank will work with a Condor SS frame, and these kits, that would be great. Alternatively, I may just go ahead and buy a Talon-P to use with a kit and build up the Condor later, because I’m not really certain what I want, now, as I had my eyes set on the TT CF Tank and Dropdown. Are the kits for a Talon-P available, now? Should I PM you, tagdagger, for pricing/availability?
The Kits will work with any of the AF frames with the newer safety, but they are dependent on the smaller 13ci tank like come with the TalonP. A larger tank will set up fine, but the LOP will be back 4+”. Would still work with the Maddog stocks, but there would be some overhang.
A CondorSS frame with the BP kit and a 13ci tank would house and cap a 24” barrel, but no extra room for an insert.
A TSS or Condor frame will house a 18” barrel and still have room for 2 sound loc baffles capped.
The TT drop down adapter will not work with the BP kits, but like Doug mentioned he can do a standard AF setup with the TTD adapter and one of his Ultima stocks.
I will let David answer some of your questions on the kit…. As far as the stock goes, I’m making the stock for the TTTA and will fit his carbon bottle but putting the kit on with the TTTA and a full bottle, you will have 5-1/2″ of bottle hanging over your shoulder. With the Talon P bottle the cheek weld is spot on and extremely ridged. The kit is setup around the Talon P and need to get David to answer on your kit questions.
The TTTA Ultima stock is available but I don’t have it on the site yet but you can contact me if you like.( 316) 640-3554 http://www.maddogriflestocks.com
Congratulations, both of these kits look very promising. I’m wondering if the Maddog stock would allow the Talon Tunes Carbon Fiber Tank with Talon Tunes Adapter, which drops the tank down 1″, to work? Also, I assume that the kit would work on the longer Condor SS frame and if so, would a 24″ barrel work, or even a shortened barrel, 21″ maybe, with an insert too?
I was a bit skeptical at first with MicroLight until I got it all together and shot it for awhile. I couldn’t put the damn thing down, lol !
The biggest surprise was the accuracy and very quiet. The side bolt is very nice and smooth but takes a little getting used to but once you do get used to it, it becomes quiet automatic. The thing is a laser beam and in the Talon P setup it is one power house little carbine with great balance.
I came up with the mount on the tang of the stock to secure the bottle and keep it perfectly aligned. Now it is my go to gun in the shop for starlings.
I had to add a extra grove for the receiver, a milled out place for the pellet dispenser and a flat spot on the tang for the bottle mount with a anchor.
The whole project turned out Damn nice and the BullDog stock will fit it as well and makes it even lighter but I’m a little partial to the Ultima.
I’m doing the Ultima for the TTTA and for oversized bottles as well but the MicroLight is a keeper for me and really pleased with it.. :8: :8:
Great job David !!
Tested a lot of different combinations today and the vented barrel sleeve is doing very well. Now even with no baffle insert, just the end cap the noise reduction is significant.
I cant remember what kind of wood Doug uses for the stocks, but its very light and doesn’t add much weight. In addition to looking good the stock makes the gun extremely rigid. Unlike a factory stock AF gun it is not hold sensitive at all. You can hold it lightly or grip it like a gorilla and still hit where you aim. Very cool.
Great thinking with venting the barrel sleeve. I might just drill holes in mine in the mean time and see if that helps. I love the looks of the maddog stock on that. But i really like how light this gun is the way it is.
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Another delay on the 2nd batch of kits. The place I use to do the machining is really backed up with work. Will post something when more are available.
Thanks,
Dave