November 16, 2015 at 2:59 am #239420
Dave, you’re right, I didn’t read your response above thoroughly. I’m certain that you will work it all out in time. I also want to say that this Microlite Kit idea of yours is really something very special, now, and will only get better with each new improvement that you discover. Thanks, again, for answering all of my questions and I hope that this is a great success for you.November 16, 2015 at 4:28 am #239423
Airforce did a great job with the Talonp especially with the direct flow valve seat and offering it at a great price point. That being said the ergonomics are terrible and unshrouded it sounds like a cannon going off.
The kits solve those problems and also help it to realize its potential accuracy wise.
Coors, There is always room for improvement thats a big part of what this forum is about. I believe some of Airforce’s refinements to their design have come from what members here have done to improve their own AF guns.
I look forward to hearing about your results from the frame vent holes and if you have a lathe I can send you a 16mm blank tube like I make the barrel mount from to try the vented extension.
I’m getting ready to enter in to my non airgun related busy season and it maybe after Christmas before I can try what we were thinking there.
Oh, and buy lots of ammo your going to need it when you get your gun setup. Fun, Fun 😀November 30, 2015 at 11:58 pm #240409
This evening I finally got to shoot the Talon-P/ Microlite Bullpup Kit. I shot about 8 shots total, because it was dark, but I shot a 4-shot 1″ group at 40 yards, using H&N Baracuda 31.02gr pellets. I’m certain that it can do much better after I get used to shooting such a tiny, light airgun. Oh, and it is very quiet, as is. So far, I’m very pleased with my choice to get this.
Update: I drilled 8x .035″ holes around the circumference of the frame, 1/8″ in front of the rear bushing. Instead of making the gun quieter I believe that it’s slightly louder, but that’s not very scientific either. The atmospheric conditions could have magnified the sound more today, I don’t know. While I had the gun apart, I decided to try something different. I snugged the barrel bushings down and then backed the screws out until the bushings just started to wobble (very slightly.) The frame to bushing screws I tightened normally. I got this idea watching Randy’s R&L shroud installation video, on youtube. The idea, in my own head anyways, is that this could act as a kind of “free-floating” barrel mechanism. Anyway, today, shooting H&N Baracudas, at 891fps-ave., the gun was basically shooting into the same hole, at 40 yards. Whether the 8x holes affected this, or the “free-floating” barrel bushing trick contributed, I don’t know. I may have just been “on” today, too. Who knows.December 7, 2015 at 9:33 pm #240821quote coors:
I don’t believe you made the gun louder! You relieved pressure prior to the muzzle and that can only reduce muzzle blast. Muzzle exhaust and hammer slap are the only two sounds anyone standing away from the gun should be able to hear. Ambient noise, distance, different hearing abilities, different sound frequencies, all figure into what can or cannot be heard by a bystander. Distance is our friend! Every inch counts. Reduced/slowed muzzle gas release can only reduce dB’s of noise audible to a bystander.
What I do believe you noticed was the excess air pressure venting from the new vent holes that are very close to the front of your ears. While this may SEEM to make the gun louder (to you) I believe to anyone else, standing to the side at a distance of ten feet or more, would be unable to detect any increase in sound.
The high frequency of escaping air from those tiny vent holes should not be detectable to anyone but the shooter, and this only because his ears are cupped forward mere inches from the source of vented air release.
I’ve tried this on various guns, and what I found was large holes (1/8″ and larger) make a “deeper”, more audible sound…perhaps because of the greater amount of air being released under pressure, or because of the harmonics of the shroud acting like a flute from the escaping air. Everything I learned boiled down to this…small holes make inaudible, or barely audible sound, and that only to the shooter because of his immediate proximity to the escaping gas.
I have always been a big advocate of venting shrouds and in the past seven years I’ve never found a reason not to do it…except do not do it to excess! More is not always better. My current configuration is a max of six to eight small holes, 1/32nd” or less, equally spaced around the shroud tube. If you have a forearm…even better. Line up the holes, put some muffling felt between them and the forearm and reattach it.
Hoot:December 8, 2015 at 3:27 pm #240854
I have obtained use of a TalonP. Maddog Doug and I have arranged for stock modification, and a Tagdagger revision kit.
After I receive it back, I will post a complete review with pictures, results, and opinions regarding these function changing modifications. I’ll try to make it interesting and informative.
Probably won’t be until after Xmans…but I’ll try to make it comprehensive. The mods Maddog and Tagdagger have come up with changed many features and functions of this little power house, but retains the power and quiets it substantially. Should be interesting an interesting little gun.
Hoot:December 8, 2015 at 6:02 pm #240862
Thank you for taking the time to write all of that, sir! That’s a very interesting thing that I’ll have to investigate further. I’ll try to talk my wife into shooting the gun while I stand to the front and side. By the way, I’m quite sure that I learned the small 8x holes around the rear circumference modification from reading one of your old posts on the subject. I’ve been doing this to all of my gas-ram airgun’s shrouds, ever since. I’m looking forward to reading your findings with the Maddog version of this gun.December 8, 2015 at 11:24 pm #240872
Here’s something “interesting”, that just came: https://www.dropbox.com/s/fj6mhkp7d7jjnxa/4500psi_15.256ci.JPG?dl=0 This is a 4500psi tank which is exactly the same length (185mm) as the OEM Talon-P tank, but is 60mm in diameter whereas the OEM tank is 50mm. Also, the OEM tank is rated at 13.1 ci whereas this 4500psi tank is rated at 15.256 ci. One other difference is that the OEM tank is threaded 5/8-18 (paintball), whereas the 4500psi tank is threaded 18-1.5 (Airforce Condor valve.) My intention is to use the 4500psi tank with an “extreme valve” and 21″ barrel in either .257 (R&L 1-14″ twist) or heavy 24″ .22 Walther barrel cut back from muzzle end (1-16 twist) to shoot swaged bullets from the “mould” that I’ll turn from an S7 bar that I’ve been saving for the occasion. I’m hoping for 3x good shots before pumping.December 9, 2015 at 1:41 am #240877
Hoot:December 10, 2015 at 12:01 am #240938
Hoot, I’m really hoping that you’re going to do a .30cal conversion on your gun. That would be exceedingly interesting, to me!December 10, 2015 at 1:59 am #240950quote coors:
I’m going to wring this baby out with the MicroLite and Maddog stock kit in .25 caliber first. Full photos, results, and honest opinions first.
THEN…perhaps the .30 caliber, but that remains to be seen. A .30 needs a few inches longer barrel and that is a problem yet to be solved.
Hoot:December 10, 2015 at 4:52 am #240956
I deleted this post, bacause my complaint was unfounded. It was user error.December 10, 2015 at 11:50 am #240964
AirForce has never been known for their lightening fast response to innovation. It took us over five years of complaining about and removing their stupid non-functional, and dangerous safety, before they finally got that right.
Also, AF never intended their gun to be a “bullpup”…it was a hybrid of some sort, different from anything on the market. That’s not what everyone on the market wants. I like many of the features of the AR design…simplicity first and foremost…power second.
Some of the changes coming have to be examined carefully, and opinions rendered…mine is but one, and hopefully many will speak their minds. This little TalonP powerhouse has it’s place in the sun. Where, exactly, remains to be seen, and changes to any new idea are a given. Still, a guy’s got to start somewhere! Kudo’s to those with the ideas and backbone to take those first expensive and dangerous steps towards innovation and change.
In the end, we the shooters benefit.
PS: I found that Spin-Loc bottle a bit “loosey goosey”, and I would prefer a more firm attachment to the frame. To my taste, Doug Maddog’s frame to stiffen up the setup is a good idea.December 10, 2015 at 1:53 pm #240967
Where did you find that tank? Imight have to give one a try.December 10, 2015 at 11:06 pm #241001
I may have bought the very last one that they had, in the .25 Liter size. A couple of days after I purchased it, they changed their add from .25L to .22L. I fully expected a .22L bottle to show up, but to my surprise it is clearly labeled 0.25L. I’ll PM you a link, so that you can ask them if they still do have one. By the way it arrived, from Jiaxing, China, and was sitting at my door in 5-days time.December 11, 2015 at 3:45 am #241017
Almost have the full length version of the vented barrel mounts done. Everyone who has a kit using a 12” barrel should receive this upgrade in the next few weeks.
It gives a good solid mount using both frame bushing mounts and quiets down the gun substantially. How quiet? I’ll let Hoot convey that, as his unbiased opinion will carry more weight than mine, but I will say I’m very pleased with the results.
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