mebelowsea post on TOG 12Dec06

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  • #1115
    shaky
    Participant

    Do any of you guys from the TOG era remember mebelowsea and his post? It regarded the building of an LDC using “Ceiling Buttons!” It was a rather engenius article, and caught the attention of quite a few guys.

    I’m curious as to how well the idea worked.

    Secondly, do any of you have the pictures he included of his fabrication?
    Initially, Gamebred, was going to host the downloading of the pics, as I guess mebelowsea had sent them to him (Gamebred), as the TOG gallery was down for a time.

    I’m still trying to reach the ULTIMATE in quietness with my SS. It’s pretty quiet now, but I’ve not achieved the “……..only hear the hammer slap…”
    stage yet. Granted, I don’t have a drilled bushing, nor holes drilled under the foregrip, etc.. Therein lies the challenge. I think it’s possible to achieve that level of quietness, without the use of a machine shop.

    Then again, maybe I’m just a foolish old man! 😀

    #30207
    shadoh
    Participant

    Drilled bushing and foregrip dont require a machine shop, just a drill and some bits.

    #30210
    bodhisdad
    Participant

    Shadohs right, and i believe its the second half of the equation in the quest for a quieter rig . I tried the Mebs stack, convex to concave side so you have a dome shape on top and bottom sides. Then the o-ring and repeat till you run out of room. This is after the 3″ or so expansion chamber. Vice the gun and add 3 or 4 1/8″ holes in the frame. Use a center punch to mark your holes and prevent the bit from walking, make sure you use a new or sharp bit to minimize burrs on the inside of frame. You will get some but a long fine round file will remove these easy enough. Believe Shadoh and my self, do it and you will notice a much quieter report. Don’t forget to mark where the foregrip ends so you don’t end up with a hole in front of the fore grip. The barrel bushing is self explanitory.

    #30859
    blackops
    Participant

    Got ya covered brother… here they are.






    Enjoy, Jim.

    #30864
    bodhisdad
    Participant

    Thats the pics. They work as well as the washer, 1″od tubing cut at various lengths to break up the harmonics combo as far as my ears can tell. Drilling the bushing and frame gets one about half way, then a nice 2.5-3″ air chamber in front of barrel followed by a series of tubing washers does the rest. Or as Black Ops has pict. the series of ceiling washers, YN uses or has used finish washers which have a unique design hard to explain but one can get the idea if they see them.

    Its been my experience that the two most improtant things to do is 1. vent the bushing/frame. 2. Allow for a 2.5″-3″ expansion chamber right in front of the barrel. I use a pvc tube which slides over my barrel and is held in center with a 1″ urethane bushing. I have redone my PVC since and drilled smaller more numerous holes 1/8″ vs. 1/4″ this is then wrapped with a permiable material. The scotch brite pads, or felt are good choices. I also wrap my barrel between the bushings lightly with the same material this lets air out yet muffles the report. A spring of the same length 3/4″, 5/8″ od can be used just as well a pvc tubing. If you push past 30 fpe or so the spring is less viable as the pressures within will shift things around, had enough of that and switched to the pvc. 40fpe and pellet clipping is no fun in that little area.


    The configuration above is what your after, be it springs, copper, pvc, whatever material. The ceiling washers will do as well. This is the last of what i consider a 3 part configuration, combination. The last of which is your baffle arrangement which i think is pretty simple when it come to the TSS frame. After the 3″ expansion chamber you have roughly 2.5″ to break up what sound and air is left, that the expansion chamber and the vented frame hasn’t already distributed. The sizes should not be the same due to harmonics. Example would be 1″ 1″ .5″ or .75″ .75″ 1″. I have had no problems with say 1″ .5″ 1″ as long as it doesn’t follow the last baffle in size.

    Meb’s post was well done and thought out, but to the naked ear i can tell little difference. I guess someone could do some testing with the right recording equipment. But in the end if you can’t notice it with the ear it matters little what the graph shows. This is all in concerns to a TSS with a 12″ barrel. I will be working on a shroud in the future and a 18″ barrel in which i’m sure some of these rules will change on me?? Till then try to keep it simple, as it is. I leave you with the internals of a weirach silencer, reputed to be one of the quietest out there. Really simple. I have considered doing the same with my pvc tubing, but hear more hammer slap then anything, no point in doing so.

    #33105
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Has anyone experimented with drilling a small vent hole in an LDC? If you consider the large expansion volume available inside the frame of Talons and the fact that venting them still increases efficiency… Seems to me it might make LDCs considerably more effective using the same principle.

    How important is having an expansion chamber before baffles begin? I don’t believe LDCs such as Loguns are designed with expansion chambers in effect are they?

    Also, has anyone found a better sound absorbing material than felt or a scotchbright… seems to me that would be a very large part of it. If it’ll fit, might even try wrapping it double or triple thick. Closed-cell automotive dampeners such as Overkill might work great.

    Brandon

    #33108
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    ATP…… I don’t know if this is of any help to you but it got me thinking…. For the filter system in my saltwater tank I buy some synthetic material at the fish supply store called “filter floss”. It has the density and flexibility you may be looking for. I have tons of it and would send you some if you want to check it out.

    Harry

    #33119
    bodhisdad
    Participant

    Closed cell foams defeat the purpose as they don’t allow air to pass through them. I have felt that’s near a 1/4″ thick that works great. I don’t remember where i got it, i tore something apart and found it. Wrapping several layers of regular felt might do the trick. Visit your local womens sewing/fabric store store 😆 all kinds of fabrics, foams, sponges to be had there, maybe some good ideas for you. The expansion chamber is pretty important as it gives the air somewhere to go, disperses it. Some goes rearward if you vented your bushing and frame. I have a huge amount of air escapeing from the 4 holes i drilled, so i know for fact frame venting works along with the expansion chamber. The pic i posted of the comercial Weirach shroud is basicly 3 expansion chambers, not baffles. I saw a decibel chart of all the major brands of pickles. The Weirach was the most effective per the chart. It was posted by a individual and not by Weirach. The felt that is pictured is about the thickness i have. The expansion chamber on my TSS is close to 3″ long and the rest is as you see it. I was shooting a few weeks ago from inside my kitchen and thought i was getting soft shots it was so quiet. Try a layout like mine and you’ll be a happy camper, i guaranty it. The holes in the expansion chamber should be around an 1/8″ vs. what is pictured above. Do you have the means to do this?? I could send you something, the PVC chamber slides right over a 12″ barrel, and rests on the bushing. I have a 18″ in now and am working on a baffle setup for it. Let me know if i can help. Don’t know about a depressureization hole in the shroud itself. If your not quiet enough something is up with your internal components. Got any pics of your setup??

    #33135
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Bod,

    I’m using a Logun on a 24″ Condor. I know the biggest part of that is volume. But at the same time, it isn’t really satisfactory unless the powerwheel is cranked down to 1. Even then it’s no “puff”. I’m just flipping ideas to get more from what I’ve got.

    Thanks
    Brandon

    #33155
    rustykfd
    Participant

    I am playing with a vented endcap on my TSS, still in progress, will update you guys if I figure anything new out.

    I can say that I don’t think the vents make it any louder…….It is pretty damn quiet to start with.

    #33170
    bodhisdad
    Participant

    I think the problem lies in the fact that the logun mod is made for a gun which pushes 30-35fpe vs what the Condor pushes. Have you vented your bushings and frame, i would think this would help alot. So long as the air has a way into the frame which i doubt. I suspect its a screw on the end of the barrel type??

    #33171
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Yes, it is screw on type. I have considered venting the LDC but don’t want to try it unless someone else here has done it with positive results.

    I got a chance to chrony the gun today.. with the wheel on 1 it’s still doing about 850 fps with Exacts. Eun Jins at 1080 fps with the wheel on 13. I keep it subsonic.

    #33184
    bodhisdad
    Participant

    what is the Outside diameter of the logun ldc? 1″- 1.24-1.5″ my thought is to make an extention which would fit inside the frame of the condor and reach out to the end of the logun LDC. You could then vent the bottom of the ldc and vent your bushings ann frame. The difficulty of the project would depend on the dia of the logun.

    I wouldn’t consider venting it, as when i’m pushing 35-40fpe from my TSS with my foregrip off {bushings/frame vented) it gets much louder. Not to mention what the inside of the logun look like. But if yuo could vent it into a piece of ali shroud then you have created a huge expansion chamber which would make a huge difference. If its 1″ the project would be very easy, 1.25″ a little harder but still doable 1.5″ might need someones help. Maybe PM Tony and see if he has any ideas??

    #33249
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    The OD of the Logun is 1.21″. The OD of the end of the frame is somewhere around 1.24″.

    I don’t think it’d go in a shroud. I guess it just looks way too cool with it anyway. 😉

    #33352
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    If you guys are looking to do something like Weihrauch does, I found the supports for your wife’s hair curlers are about the right size. Some use springs and some plastic that look about like the others up top. Guess you could go to Walmart and find some really small curlers and that would allow you to put a thicker layer of absorbing material in there.

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