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Installing a Regulator in My AA S510

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  • #22901
    steveinla
    Participant

    I began with a Talon SS in .22 caliber; what a great single shot! Several years later I bought an AirArms S410 in .22 caliber at a really good price. Two years ago I bought an AirArms S510 carbine in .22, again at a great price. They have their sweet spots as most un-regulated guns do. I have been watching Matt Dubber in South Africa and just had to take the plunge. I purchased a new Robert Lane regulator from a guy here in Arizona. He had problems with his first Lane regulator and had it replaced. It is my understanding that Mr. Lane stood by his product and replaced it free of charge although there may have been nothing wrong with the original regulator.

    So, I took the plunge and drilled the hole in my beautifully blued air tube. I used too slow of a spindle speed and broke off the drill bit as it broke through the backside of the tubing. It would have been nice if there was a note in the instructions advising a higher spindle speed…around 5000rpm for such a small drill bit; 1mm (0.039″). I managed to clear that and moved on to the de-burring and polishing stage. I installed the regulator and charged the cylinder…psss. Crap! It leaked. I had placed the regulator in the wrong place. So, I took it apart and re-seated it. Psss…more leakage. Crap! I did this repeatedly. I used dial calipers to determine the seating location and still had problems. I thought for sure I had drilled the hole in the wrong place. I didn’t. It finally began to work properly, however it does sing; it makes noises…singing sounds. I got fairly good shot to shot consistency, but it is very inefficient. It is loud and wastes air. So, Mr. Lane suggests that I purchase one of his anti bounce hammers for $50+. OK, I did that.

    Now I get to figure that out.

    What are your experiences with regulators?

    #271700
    steveinla
    Participant

    Where did everybody go? I thought for sure there would be some discussion about regulators. Oh well.

    #271742
    miksatx
    Participant

    Hey SteveinLA is it still singing ? What did you set the reg at to start?

    #271743
    steveinla
    Participant

    Hi Mike,
    It came set it to 140-145bar (2175psi). I have read that shorter barreled airguns need a greater blast to make up for their shorter barrel. Mr. Lane has stated in the regulator instructions that the pressure that the regulator is set to is the last adjustment to be made. He also suggested that I buy a Nicholson anti bounce hammer…from him. ..which I did. However, it did not come with any instructions, nor did it have a web address as to where to find said instructions. So, right now it is more like an IQ test. 😉

    First Regulated Shot Strings: needs work. It’s loud and inefficient. I’ll get it there.
    .22cal, Crosman Premier Domed Hollow Point pellets
    Starting Fill Pressure: 3000psi

    1 901 (first shot; regulators need several shots to equalize if the gun is shot below the reg’s set pressure. I’m learning.)
    2 876
    3 877
    4 883
    5 883
    6 888
    7 878
    8 887
    9 890
    10 882

    Second string
    1 916
    2 915
    3 907
    4 916
    5 920
    6 909
    7 915
    8 909
    9 933
    10 916

    R, Steve

    #271777
    bogman
    Participant

    Hey Steve, you’re braver than I! I’ve considered putting a reg. on my AA s 510 FAC, but don’t have the shop/tools/time/nerve to fux it. Hemm was talking about installing one on his gun and maybe he has insight.

    If you haven’t tried the JSB Exact Jumbo Diabolo 15.9 grain pellets, give them a whirl. I’ve tried Crosman, and a bunch of other pellets, settling on these as the most accurate.

    Looks like you’re getting closer to your goals!

    #271778
    bogman
    Participant

    How long is the air tube on your carbine?

    #271780
    steveinla
    Participant

    Hi Bogman,
    I believe that it is the 30cm version. It is the “classic” length.

    Are you familiar with the Daystate Regal XL? That gun has a “slingshot” hammer and an “improved” valve. It is an anti bounce hammer. That gun without a regulator is getting 50 shots. They have figured out how to be most efficient with the available air. Robert Lane’s anti bounce hammer could help you get a higher shot count without installing a regulator. You would have to play with the outlet valve spring tension and fit/tune the new hammer assembly. I had already drilled the breathe hole, so there’s no going back for me unless I want to replace the air tube. I love my walnut stocked S 510 carbine. It only had 10 or 12 good full power shots in the sweet spot. I was refilling every magazine. With the regulator and no tuning, I’m up to 22 shots. (I got busy at work and haven’t had the time to install the anti bounce hammer and do the tune.)

    The crosman premiers are accurate out of my gun and are available at wally world. The JSB’s do shoot more accurately, but for what I am doing the CPDHP work just fine. It has been pointed out before that the crosman pellets are a harder lead; I like that too.

    Here is a link to a video of a guy who documents the shot count and accuracy of his Regal XL:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BeeRkI2ofZI

    follow this link to view the instructions for the anti bounce hammer:
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxDsz9IVH1pwUUtPZXB0OHVZM0pfbHV3R3dOWTczZGZQc004/view

    Installing a regulator is not for the faint of heart! If you are going to drill a 1mm (0.039″) hole, your spindle speed needs to be around 5000rpm! If you drill it too slowly, like I did, you run the risk of breaking off the drill bit in the tube! …like i did. I know better and I still used the wrong spindle speed.

    Good Luck!
    R, Steve

    #271980
    papa-schultz
    Participant
    quote SteveinLA:

    … I got fairly good shot to shot consistency, but it is very inefficient. It is loud and wastes air…

    Hi Steve, the inefficiency probably comes from a hammer which is hitting too hard. That‘s a classic after installing a reg.
    Without a reg, the hammer has to overcome the max rated pressure to open the valve (let’s say it’s 200 bar). When installing the reg, the same hammer setting has to open the set reg pressure only (let’s say 130 bar), therefore opening the valve way longer (time) and therefore wasting air.
    What I would advise is that you gradually decrease the hammer spring tension until your pellet speed starts to decrease.
    That’s where the balance between hammer spring tension and reg pressure is.
    Too heavy a hammer spring tension wastes air and too low doesn’t make use of your full reg pressure potential.
    It still might not be the best balance between air consumption and desired pellet speed, but it’s a good starting point for further tuning between reg pressure and hammer spring tension. Might be you can even lower the reg pressure and maintain desired pellet speed, that depends on a lot of factors like transfer port size, barrel length,… too high a reg pressure even with balanced hammer spring tension could also be a reason for the loud crack at each shot. Any way, always tune both to match.

    I personally prefer retrofit regs where drilling is not required, Altaros use a system where the venting to the atmosphere is done by removing the o-ring seal at the plenum end of the air tube. This is completely reversible should you decide not to use a reg anymore or should you need to service your reg and are waiting for spare parts (and still would like to soot your rig).

    #271985
    steveinla
    Participant

    Greetings Papa Schultz,
    Thank you for your experienced reply. I didn’t know that when I began this project, but I have been learning. I’m gonna have to buy some proper hammer springs to whittle down in search of the balance you speak of. My regulator is a Robert Lane regulator. Mr. Lane’s suggestion was at first to do as you say and cut down the hammer spring. Then he suggested that I buy his Nicholson anti bounce hammer. So I did. Hmm. It is a lighter hammer that slides on a delrin hammer carrier. It has been nothing but a frustration.

    It is not a plug-and-play modification in his words. It did not come with instructions, or a link to online instructions. I asked through email for instructions and I got an insulting answer. I told him that insults are not necessary and he told me to “FUCK OFF”, or someone named “Charles” did. I later found a link to instructions at the bottom of the fuck off email. Hmm.

    I had to remove material from the end of the hammer carrier such that it would allow the sear to engage. Then I had to trim the hammer spring. The hammer spring was too long for his “precision design” and would bind and not allow the sear to engage. Hmmm. I finally removed that hammer and replaced it with the stock hammer and spring. I left a 0.070″ spacer placed under the outlet valve spring and turned down the regulator pressure. That raised my shot count to 30 shots while lowering my power to 20ft lbs. (800fps with .22 cal CPDHP pellets). Which is acceptable for what I am doing with the gun. Then…the fill port “O” ring began to leak. OK, break time.

    I know that I can figure out the balance between the hammer’s impact force and the operation of the outlet valve. The transfer port is i believe 3.8mm fully open. We’ll see.

    I am open to any and all suggestions and certainly appreciate yours Papa Schultz.

    Thank you again for the response.

    R, Steve

    #271990
    papa-schultz
    Participant

    Oh yes, it’s a learning curve, and we’re all in. My pleasure to share what I found out and what other members here shared with the community to help before. That’s what makes the hobby interesting.
    Less so what you describe from your purchase/support experience… A bit disappointing to see that some engineers don’t manage to project themselves in the skin of someone who discovers the topic and it’s complexity and just can’t provide simple help. Well it’s an ever lasting issue I guess, that’s why a good service guy is of great value for a company. On the other hand, regulators are not a mass market so the man doesn’t risk a lot…

    Just found something on the page of huma-air (regulator manufacturer in the Netherlands) even though a little late for you, nevertheless here we go: http://foto.huma-air.com/foto/installation%20guide%20Air%20Arm%204xx-5xx%20made%20by%20Coverleaf%20from%20Airgunforum.pdf
    Cheers

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