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I’m Under-whelmed….

Home Forums AirForce Escape/ Escape SS/ Escape UL I’m Under-whelmed….

This topic contains 23 replies, has 11 voices, and was last updated by  hoot 5 years, 8 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 24 total)
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  • #16603

    hoot
    Participant

    AF hasn’t had an original thought since they developed the basic design.

    There have been SO MANY improvements made by the shooting public on this brand, that it’s almost difficult to bring all of them to mind at one time.

    How has AF reacted? They improved the trigger safety mechanism. Made a Talon SS Junior with their “pistol”, and now made a “Talondor” (Escape) years after our forum member perfected the idea with a full shot count, and power to spare. AF still couldn’t get it right…they put a tiny air soft tank on this Talondor clone, made it as loud as a powder burner, and ruined it’s true potential.

    Long after we made the Condor dead silent, they still can’t get past some ancient design baffles, and shroud designs, to simply cut the discharge blast.

    AF is a fun gun to play with. But…you will never recover your cost in mods, and I guarantee that after you have taken the expensive “Mod An AF” hands-on self taught course, you WILL want to move on to a quality pcp. Just consider the cash invested, but lost at re-sale, as tuition to learn the basic of how to mod a pcp. Then move on to the big boys where top quality is the starting point!

    Shame. So much potential, so little incentive in their shop, to make the AF line a top end pcp instrument at the get-go. It’s bad news when Crosman/Benjamin beats you at your own game, and at a lower cost to boot. Two American success stories cut off at the knees by their own R&D department. When will either of these companies learn to listen to their owner/users???

    Hoot:

    #194635

    ltlurker
    Member

    So true, I could have bought an Edgun with the money I invested and didn’t recoup when sold. It was a very expensive lesson. But I did learn a lot about how airguns work and had fun modding them. I see guys trying to get $1800 for a condor that’s fully tricked out and shake my head knowing that in short order the price will drop accordingly just as I did so a year ago.

    #194640
    quote LTLurker:

    So true, I could have bought an Edgun with the money I invested and didn’t recoup when sold. It was a very expensive lesson. But I did learn a lot about how airguns work and had fun modding them. I see guys trying to get $1800 for a condor that’s fully tricked out and shake my head knowing that in short order the price will drop accordingly just as I did so a year ago.

    I’ve easily invested the cost of an Edgun in my Condor. But I bought a gun, not shares in a stock fund. I could care less what it’s worth to somebody else. It’s worth it to me. Pry my cold, dead fingers off my Condor sorta thing. Nobody recovers money out of a hotrod.

    None of this justifies the hoopla over new options for the TalonP. Next year we get the Star Wars Edition Edge?

    John

    #194647

    on-the-edge
    Member

    Next year they will probably put the 22 CI tank on it, as I suggested to them this past year before they introduced the Edge series.

    #194674

    roachcreek
    Participant

    Hoot,

    I have been saying this for some time, and got lambasted because of it.

    It is like that part of Texas that makes these guns is infected by Chinanytys. They can copy some of the mods here but the execution comes up a poor second.

    But they did make the Condor SS sound like a ball point pen falling on carpet, I know this because I read it on a rather famous blog.

    #194678

    leadlofter
    Member

    I’m with you man. The regulator really is what is getting to me. I’ve flattened out my string as much as I can and I don’t see even half the number of edgun or cricket( don’t know any other reg guns number as I haven’t researched them). I recently have been taking shots out to 130-150 yards in glass bottles and it is awesome. But dealing with a bell curve isn’t too fun at those distances. If you want to upgrade slowly and don’t want to drop the 1800-2000 and up for a high end pcp, than airforce is the way to go. They shoot great and are accurate but leave much more to be desired.

    #194773

    powderburner
    Participant

    Wow,

    Well it is what you make it, if you want to spend a ton of money on a gun , go ahead, but don’t bitch about it.

    you dont need to spend anything on the condor to make it accurate, except bore or metal polish , and a bunch of elbow power

    spent 450 bucks on the purchase of mine, bran new , already had the scope and rings.

    If you cant do thing s yourself i suppose this is where you would have to spend money.

    i built my own shroud, and butt , these are the only things i have changed, beside polishing everything and porting the valve.

    Bought the gun in 24″ 22, still is in 24” 22, does the job very well.is very accurate .

    The only thing that i am not satisfied with is if i want to shoot a very precise long shot count application, so a regged bottle would take care of that, i would think, with a very long shot count with peak consistency

    want to get a regged bottle one of these days

    each to there own

    that new thing they came up with i don’t know about :dito:

    edguns , crickets , they are cool for sure, but i’m not in the market to spend 1500 for an air gun , but im glad you guys are, i love reading about it, they are for the most part perfect, they have their issues also,shot count is yummy, accuracy superb , but the condor will shoot right with them.peak accuracy takes work with the condor
    besides i like the condor, it will change to what ever i need ,(if i ever wanted to change it) really i need to buy another one to change around and such, so i can leave mine alone.
    i would like to set up a 177 to see what could be done with it,like a field target set up,

    everyone goes for more power, i have used 177 for so long to take care of my varminting, that the condor in 22 is way more power than i need. I use 14 grain pellets in the low 900s

    You guys ever have a rifle that shot so good that you didn’t want to touch it.

    #194887

    hoot
    Participant
    quote powderburner:

    You guys ever have a rifle that shot so good that you didn’t want to touch it.

    ‘Burner…you are a blessed man!

    Every now and then one of us finds the exact gun he needs, that does precisely what he wants to do with it. Most of the rest of us stumble through one gun after another, searching for something we can’t quite define.

    Good for you my man…good for you!

    Hoot:

    #194940

    powderburner
    Participant

    Thanks Hoot!

    Just lucky,
    i just have to many other hobbies to try and keep up with, to go nuts with air guns, (although i could sell a bike for one of those crickets ??) Nah!

    but my condor does take care of all my other air guns duties really well, the laser on my condor takes care of point blank range that i used to pick up my M 34 RWS open sighted springer in 177 to dispatch close critters , and the condor just runs away from my M 48 rws in 177 in the power department for any range.
    My condor is like 46″ long, i would like to get another set up in a shorter package one of these days, when the interest hits me again.

    But really , when my condor in in tune it absolutely amazes me , two three shot in exactly the same hole at 50 yards, hell it does it at 100 yards, i have a couple of targets that it cut 3 shots in not exactly one hole but ragged hole then the other two open up the group.
    I think that this could be done with most of these rifles, just polish, and allot of rounds down the bore, smooth and slow.

    #194999

    roachcreek
    Participant

    PB,

    ‘Three shots in one hole at 50 yards, hell it will do that at 100 yards, and most of these rifles are capable of that.’ (Paraphrasing of course due to my lack of knowing how to do the quotes here)

    That is truly astounding, for lack of a better word, like unbelievable, that your saying that is the norm for AF Condors and all are capable of this accuracy.

    Three shots in one hole you say at 100 yards.

    Yes, everyone has a rifle that will shoot a stellar group now and then out of hundreds of groups. I shot a 1.5 ” group for three shots once at 265 yards, but it was a fluke and I had the good sense to stop shooting after 3 shots.

    Fact is that 2 or 3 shot groups, with the last two opening up the group prove absolutely nothing as far as consistency in a rifle, I repeat absolutely nothing other than the rifle is incapable of shooting a consistent 5 shot group without the last two or three wandering.

    Sorry just can’t let that one fly past my bullshit meter without reporting on it.

    #195025

    powderburner
    Participant

    Your pretty funny .

    You need to learn how to read, i suppose.or is it reading composition.

    here you go, a quick Wikipedia
    Reading comprehension is the ability to read text, process it and understand its meaning.

    #195029

    roachcreek
    Participant

    PB,

    Yeah that must be it, I am illiterate.

    Or perhaps I simply do not know how to shoot or is it I just did not get that magical one?

    They do fill a niche in the air gun world for powerful inexpensive take down air gun, if you don’t add anything to them to keep them as a bargain and shoot them in the peculiar method needed to not flex the frame.

    I think Hoot summed it up pretty well in the first post in this thread.

    #195030

    powderburner
    Participant

    Wow ,
    there you go again, i did not say you were illiterate .

    Far from it , i have complimented you in the past
    You really seem to be good at misreading or coming to some wrong conclusions right now.

    Haven’t Said air force is magic or mythical either, all you have to do is look at one to see that it would not shoulder correctly .

    I am just amazed at how accurate they can be.
    there have been times i wanted to break it over a stump, then i would get it back into its tune, oiling this or , tweaking this or that.

    I have had people private message me for advice about air force rifles, and i told it like it is, no sugar, from 1/4” 50 yard groups to having to retune constantly due to changing temperature. and they actually didn’t buy one.

    I do not put anything on this forum or anywhere else for that matter that i would not say to any ones face. or do in front of them

    I am not boastful, i keep to my self for the most part, and i really had no intentions of posting pics of groups and such on this forum . but i learned allot about these rifles, and changed my mind to try a help people that were having hell with there guns.

    I just like a challenge i suppose . well maybe not like, maybe i am just hardheaded and don’t know when to give up, and get lucky and make things work that weren’t supposed to in the first place

    I’m going to go finish loading 357 sigs i have been working on this evening

    OH , and speaking of challenge, i picked up a little 380 back up, that im working up loads for,ive got a 102 grain rem golden saber up to 1100 fps, it is a horse to shoot, the gun ways 11.5 oz loaded. 4.7 grains of Unique , dont want to shoot to many of these thru it. primers are flat but look fine, starting to get slight case bulge

    Later

    #195032

    dhoffs
    Member

    I typically stay out of the posts and just try to learn a little from all and am in no way a professional shooter, but have been successful enough over the past 15 years..for what it’s worth, My first PCP was an AA s410 SL Carbine FAC .22 and for 7 years.. yea, it was good enough not to touch it. Plenty of power, accurate as anything I have tested, really quiet and I Never had a single problem with it in the entire time I had it. Cost me about $1250 back then.. somewhat between the AFs and the Crickets on Price now a days… I Sold it a few months ago and wish I had could take it back. Bang for the buck, AA is top of line in my humble opinion.

    That said, I recently purchased and sold (wish i had that one back too) a cricket .25 tactical, I currently have a Evanix .357, stock Condor SS .25 and am currently using an Escape SS .25, as I have been hiking a lot while pest-ing on the property where I shoot. For what it’s worth, in my opinion there is just no comparing a Condor with a Cricket.. its a different league all together. Its like comparing a very nice 350Z to a GTR.. yea, you can make the 350 keep up, but it will never be a GTR.. as it shouldn’t be, being that Its less than 1/2 the price of the Cricket.

    This condor and Escape are great for the money but are far less capable, at least in my hands, then my AA or the Cricket I sold. Yea the AFs I have are stock.. but so were the Cricket an AA s410. The AA and Cricket are just better in every category other than weight. But are they 8 or 900$ better.. I don’t think so, but do I still wish I had them both back..yes! 100yd and up, shooting with a solid repeater just cant be beat for fun. I can honestly say There is no way in h*** my condor or escape is consistent enough to be anything other than a long shot or random 3peat at those distances.. and again, this is with the rifle in my hands..not a pro. But with the Cricket especially, consistent 100yd placement’s were actually somewhat easy.. a little too easy sometimes. But then again, try hiking and stalking around with a 12LB cricket and you will want AF for sure..

    Anyways.. All PCPs have there place in my book. It just depends on your exact needs..

    My 1 1/2 cents
    DH

    #195034

    roachcreek
    Participant

    PB,

    Well we probably do agree on one thing, Unique is called Unique because it certainly is. It is a splendid handgun powder and a very good cast bullet propellant in cases up to 30-06.

    My problem with the AF design is that I have arthritis in both my thumbs at the wrists from years of using chain saws and I just got tired of the pain at night from tearing the rifles down and working on them to keep them shooting. As a result I found the various FX’s and AA S410 I have had to be a relief to my hands.

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