Getting a Tony tuned Talon .22 – have some questions
This is my first Talon so I ‘m going to need a little help making the right decisions and understanding things better.
I spoke briefly with Tony today because he was very busy. I explained to him that I wanted a very quiet gun shooting around 40fpe w/21gr Kodiaks and an 18″ barrel. He said no problem. We agred that that I would by the gun from him and he ‘d make a full shroud for it, do his “full tune”, and an O-ring mod for the valve.
I ‘m assuming I ‘d get the regular Talon that comes with the 18″ barrel and add a shroud to it. My question is, is the shroud (for $200) just a 6″ add-on from the frame to the end of the barrel or does it go inside the frame at all? Is the factory 18″ (Lothar Waltham I presume) barrel, the same as the 18″ one that Tony sells on his web site? I figured I get the 18″ barrel from the getgo that comes with the regular (non-SS) Talon so I won’t have to pay for a longer barrel later.
Another question What is the difference between a stock Talon SS and a regular Talon besides the extra 6″ that is not shrouded on the non-SS?
Another thing we did not discuss was the spring hammer. Will Tony install a spring hammer to get some extra power, or is it all done with the valve work (valve mods, port/polish, etc.) from the ‘full tune’?
I guess I need to call back when he ‘s not too busy but he said I ‘d have to wait 10-12 weeks before I get the gun because he all of a sudden got a lot of work all at once, so I ‘m guessing he ‘ll be busy for a while.
Are there any other mods I should be looking into that make the gun more accurate or better to shoot? What about the top hat clearance/adjustment? Will Tony adjust that for the power I want?
What exactly does the ventilated bushing do, and what is the 1-piece breech I read about on his web site? Are there any issues with the way the Talon loads the pellet? Should I be getting mods for easier loading or is that all part of his ‘full tune’? I do have a price cap, so I ‘m not looking to spend tons of $ on mods that may not make a big difference or not be helpful with accuracy or how quiet the gun shoots. As it is this “Tony Talon” will cost me about $1 grand.
I guess my main question is, are the shroud, tune, and O ring mod, all I need to have a really good shooting 40fpe Talon that is quiet and accurate with a decent amount of shots? Should I be considering a Concor for about $200 bucks more with lots more power? but can they get as quiet as a Talon? I wouldn’t do a power tune on the Condor for what I need. I think the factory power of a Condor would be plenty for groundhogs and racoons out to 60+yds, but a “silent” shooting gun is very important to me. Tony said the Talon would be more quiet so that ‘s what I based my decision on.
We discussed a velocity of ~925fps with 21gr Kodias and it was explained to me that after 30-35 shots it would shoot around 850fps which is pretty much the range I was looking for. How does that sound to everyone? I ‘d prefer shooting a string of 10-15 shots in the 900fps range, but Tony explained to me that AF guns don’t shoot like other PCP’s and that they go down a couple of fps after every shot. Can the Talon tank & valve be modified to shoot a dozen shots of consistent velocity or will I have to adjust the POA every 10 shots or so? Sorry for all the questions. I ‘ve read a bunch of posts here and my brain is in overload mode..
Thanks in advance for any comments or advice you could give!
Harry
PS. e-mails are welcomed too. vtecharry@yahoo.com
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So I should make sure that Tony installs a shroud that extends 6″ beyond the barrel?
Who is A266 btw, that should adjust my tophat? (I do have a chrony..). Is it hard to adjust? I would think Tony would do that to get the best shot consistency, no?
common rule of thumb here for a good shroud length is 6″ beyond the end of the barrel.
1. yes
2. no
Thanks, I thought the shroud only covers the length of the barrel from the end of the frame to the muzzle. Does the shroud Tony makes extend beyond the barrel?
If your gun is 40″ long with an 18″ barrel, then I would think you need to have a 12″ shroud, no?
Hammer slap mod does reduce the mechanical noise made by the hammers strike. With the PW set to 0 it’s very quiet, but does get louder as the PW is turned up. Overall I’d say 60~75% reduction in noise.
Take off the Bipod and loose ½ Lb
“My friend just e-mailed me and said his basic Talon (18″ barrel) is 33″ long. I can see Tony’s butt pad adding an extra 2″ or so for 35″ length. Maybe the laser is extending beyond the barrel?”
Answer: laser sits under the scope on top rail; add 6” for the shroud
thanks again for the info and taking out the time to post guys!
What is the hammer slap mod? It quiets down the noise from the hammer? (mechanical noise?)
Thanks Sotxguy: So it sounds like about a 2.5fps drop after each shot with your Talon. That’s what Tony at Talontunes said to me as well. I can live with that 🙂 9lbs is a little heavy for my taste but I should be the one to talk. My scoped Diana 350 .22 weighs about 9.5lbs and is 48″ long.! How did you get it to be >40″? My friend just e-mailed me and said his basic Talon (18″ barrel) is 33″ long. I can see Tony’s butt pad adding an extra 2″ or so for 35″ length. Maybe the laser is extending beyond the barrel?
I love the 850 .22 which weighs under 7lbs scoped. I never get tired carrying that gun around and I really like its carbine-like overall length which is what I ‘m looking for in the Talon. It’s amazing the difference an extra 2 pounds make when taking a heavier gun into the woods.. I was thinking of going with the 24″ barrel but decided against it. That’s just me. I have a couple of long springers (Diana 36 is 44″) but I ‘m getting to like carbine-style guns lately. I prefer under 40″ nowadays.
Thanks again guys! I ‘ll be talkign with Tony again very soon, but if there ‘s anything else we didn’t cover here, or any other questions I should be asking Tony, please let me know.
I own something close to what you looking for. I have a Talon SS in .22 cal that’s been to Talontunes. It has a 6” shroud, 18” barrel, vented bushing, 65g hammer, bored and ported valve stem, hammer slap and O-ring mods. With all the accessories attached, Scope, Laser, Bipod, Butt pad and pellet holder in weights in a 9Lb 4oz and overall length of 40.25”
With a 2700psi fill it will shot a string of Kodiaks starting at ~910fps and finishing at ~840fps after 25 shots. By then the tank is down to 1800psi
Conclusion, the overall noise the gun makes now is at least 50 maybe 75% (subjective) reduction over OEM with a 50% (25→38fpe) increase in energy
the shroud will make the biggest difference. the holes in the front bushing allow more air to expand into the back part of the frame. not sure how much of a difference that one makes. i did just purchase a DB meter off ebay a couple hours ago. after i get it, maybe i’ll play with the gun a little and post some sound #s.
I believe if you vent the bushing you should vent the frame as well, to give the air some place to go. Don’t quote me on that though.
Great advice, good stuff! Keep it coming please. I ‘m digesting everything really well I think for now.. Tony wants me to give him one final call to discuss everything in more detail and ask away. 10-12 weeks will be a long time to wait but I ‘m sure it ‘ll be worth the wait.
My goad is to have a very quiet gun that starts out at 40fpe (925fps) w/21gr Kodiaks and work its way down slowly by 2-3fps to 850 or so for a good 35 shots. It looks like the ventilated bushing is a must to quiet things down even more. I asked about it but he didn’t seem to “push” the bushing..
I ‘m not sure I understand where the air is escaping from into the frame using the ventilated bushing. Is it air escaping from the tank, or outside ambient air? I would think the latter? I will discuss the heavier hammer with Tony as well. Didn’t have time on the first call.. he was busy and I could hear a milling or lathe machine working on & off while he was talking to me. He was at his work bench and I could tell he was distracted. I hope he didn’t mess up any tolerances on someone’s gun (by 0.001″) on my account! 🙂
i did pretty much the same thing you are doing (or going to do).
new hammer
18″ barrel w/ fluted breach
shroud
drilled bushing
it’s a REALLY quiet gun at high power levels. I can take it up to a 10-11 and shoot it at 6am and the neighboars never hear. it’s shooting predators at 800 fps w/ power level 10.
i’m going to be sending the gun to tony for a full tune as soon as i get the airwolf i just bought. the gun shoots really well even though it hasnt been tuned. i expect to see 900fps or so once tony tunes it.
I agree, the only down side is purchase of the 18″ barrel. But with the Tss frame, the 18″ barrel comes just to the end of frame making a cleaner looking fit. All you need then is 6″ of shroud to quiet things down. The frame/barrel length is the only difference between the two. If anything Tony will have you purchase a heavier hammer rather then a hammer spring. Stock is 45/50ish and 65-70grams prime for a hammer in a T/SS. You’ll get more consistency with a heavier hammer, valve porting/ re working increases velocity by around 100fps over stock. Tophat should b set by A266, although if you have a chrony you may play around some yourself. If the tophat is set well, you’ll see around 1.5/2fps lose in power from shot to shot no need to adjust POI every 10-15 shots.
The ventilated bushing allows air to escape into the frame upon the firing cycle. This helps quiet the cycle down, shrouding takes care of the rest.
I think the longer frame looks a lot better than the short one, especially when you add longer barrels and shrouds.
So is it beneficial to have the TSS’ longer 22″ frame and get the 18″ barrel seperately and have it shrouded? Would the frame length matter since I ‘m getting a Tony made shroud for the regular Talon’s 18″ barrel?
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A266, Anthony266, Tony, all the same person.
Harry, I think you are worrying too much about all this. When Tony gets that gun out to you, you are going to be envied by a bunch on here, me included. It will be much, much more than you anticipate in quality workmanship and the time he spends getting it to the top of the class.
I have one of his 6″ shrouds and am shooting an 18″ barrel through it. Take the shroud off and it is louder than a .22 rimfire, put it back on and the most noise I hear is from hammerslap, which I have done nothing about at the present time.