October 23, 2007 at 7:26 am #608eamoParticipant
Hows it going lads?
I have a keen intrest in all makes of air rifles and especially any advancements that occuring in the field. I have regarded with intrest the Air Ranger electronic trigger system, and the posibilities that it can give.
Their new Rifle to be released has new MVT system, essentially a electronic regulator, measuring pellet velociety and altering force of hammer strike to achieve consistant velociety.
I am still sat on the fence on this one, while I marvel at the technolgy, in built chrony in the silencer, with processing power to analyse the data, with a whole range of electronic features Airforce owners can only dream of.
I have a niggling doubt in the back of my mind that on a cold wet Janaury night, pissing rain, sleet, snow, or when you accidently slip crossing a ditch, that the technolgy will feck up, dust or dirt gets in the sensor,battery will go flat, etc.
Maybe I am just a luddite, that in a couple of years we will all have a variant of the system on our rifles, go hunting in hover cars al la Jetsons etc 😆
eamoOctober 23, 2007 at 7:58 am #26335photo22Participant
IMO I would wait till the technology is “tried and true” in the real world. Like (pellet velociety and altering force of hammer strike) I will need to see this tested more. 🙄October 23, 2007 at 9:32 am #26336hellratterParticipant
I for one think this is a great idea, but I don’t think the rest of Airgun manufacturers are gonna follow suit…Then again this could be a great way to sell guns over there because of all the strict laws and such… I think this tech is more in-line with paintball then airgunning, and I’m sure the electronics in paintguns are pretty hearty….Who knows, it just may flop…or it may be the first Daystate I ever own…That is if it doesn’t cost me my left nut… 😯 😆October 23, 2007 at 9:38 am #26337
When my caiman comes I’m selling it and buying that…..October 23, 2007 at 1:08 pm #26341airtrampParticipant
ROMFL. YN, you’ve just cracked me up. So funny.October 23, 2007 at 2:11 pm #26347
What they are trying to do is old news. It might be new for pellet guns but not for paintball guns.
Several years ago a paintball called they Cyber measured velocity from the gun and many paintball guns have used LED screen and have been adjustable for years.
As time passes that technology will be come dated and abandoned. Just like old electronic paintball guns with electronics. If something goes tits up and they no longer support the board you are screwed!
Remember Crosman made a match rifle with an electronic trigger and led display years ago…..they sure do not support that anymore!October 23, 2007 at 6:07 pm #26354mcmikeParticipant
Would someone explain why they make semi-regulated gun and try flatten it’s power-curve by varying hammer impact with complex electronics and built-in chrono? Wouldn’t it be much simpler just to make a regulator? What I am missing here?October 23, 2007 at 6:37 pm #26355
On one of my paintball gun is set up like this…
4500 Carbon Fiber tank regulated down to 800 psi then a secondary regualtor knocks down the pressure to 180psi. Still another regulator decreases the pressure to a 5 way mac valve which inturn feeds an air ram which hits the valve.
So with my electronic marker I can regulate the pressure for velocity and the pressure for he air ram to adjust dwell time.
These electronic boards are run of the mill in paintball and a drop in part now. The Boyz at Daystate are trying to reinvinted the wheel.
If they regulated the pressure to the gun for the pellet and also put in regulator for an air ram to control dwell then they would be done. But honestly in a good rifle with good trigger no electronics are needed.
People alway scream about regualtors failing in airguns yet again I had had my paintball guns with regulators through the rain and dirt and mud without a problem. The airgun makers need to talk to people who actually make regulators for a living and also consult makers of boards for paintball guns. They should stop trying to invent all this stuff themselves and use what has been proven.
Now here is the down side and is well know in paintball. Electronics in guns are doomed for obsolences. As new models come out the old electronics get left behind. How long will Daystate support their electronic gun? 10 years 20years…I doubt it. Do they even support their mechanical guns that are 20 years old? And it 10 years how far more advanced will electronics be? making the Daystate gun akin to a 8 track player.October 23, 2007 at 9:40 pm #26370teflontronParticipant
Well, I own one of Daystate’s current MVT guns in the shape of an Air Wolf, and I can tell you that whilst the technology is great and advanced, the gun really does function like any other pcp. You get the gun, charge the battery overnight and it then has enough juice to shoot for something like 10,000 shots, so the chance of the battery dying in the field is remote. The cocking and trigger are wonderfully smooth as they have no sears to release or hammers to cock.
However, Daystate have a much more pressing concern, in my honest opinion, and that is that they really need to pay more attention to each individual rifle. For example, the shroud on the Wolf, whilst good, is really not that great (for the price of the gun), plus it doesn’t support the barrel correctly and that affects accuracy (you can pinch the shroud and tank together with no effort at all). Sure, every gun has issues, but when said gun costs $2000+ I would like to think that I’m getting something great, and hearing all the stories of people with Wolfs and the Ranger before that who couldn’t shoot a better group that they could with their 2240 as the barrel was flexing, or that the pellets were clipping the poorly designed baffles, is not good enough. Sure, there are Wolves that will shoot sub 0.5″ Groups at 50 Yards straight out of the box, but those horror stories, even if they really are just 2 in 100 models, is not good enough, and letting a shroud that clips make it through the design and testing process is just shocking. These are the things that Daystate need to put their man hours into fixing.
In short, I’m all for the technology, but it must come as an enhancement to what makes a top notch pcp great instead of a replacement for them.October 23, 2007 at 10:28 pm #26371
How about this the first electronic airgun by Crosman with a electronic trigger and LED…From 1984October 24, 2007 at 4:38 am #26395photo22Participant
WOW…good Info. guys.October 24, 2007 at 5:52 am #26402
I wouldnt say they were trying to reinvent the wheel…. just finally getting around to using a technology that has been around in other similar applications.
Electronics have a habit of failing, especially those used in outdoor applications and manufactuers have a habit of not supporting electronics after a few years. Even if they wanted too, their suppliers probably wont be making the same parts anyway.
Tron… 10,000 shots doesnt mean you can charge it up and it wont need recharging for another 10,000 shots. If you sat down and did a 10,000 shot string then that MIGHT be accuracte…. I dont know what AH rating their batteries are or what chemical composition…. But they will suffer from self discharge and if you leave them for a month or two you might have to recharge them even if you only shot 30 shots. Temperature and age of the cell itself will lower its overall capacity not to mention the batteries finite life. Are they generic batteries you’ll be able to get anywhere or are they a proprietary style you might have a hard time finding? I know I wont buy a Camera or other electronics that use a proprietary battery if theres an equal out there that uses generics like AA or AAA’s. Batteries also sometimes have a nasty habit of leaking if they are fauly or overcharged or discharge too much, so if you leave it for an extended period of time you might come back to the gun and find acid has eaten away your circuit board.
I was seriously considering getting the AirWolf, then I saw how they are updating the design already and didnt want to get into the “we no longer support this product” type BS that I’ve had with other electronics after a failure in just a few years. (Once I took the Wolf off my list I was going to get a Rapid… as everyone says its the creme de la creme.. but I honestly couldnt justify it to my skinflint mind when the 410 is out there for less and has everything I wanted).
I’m not at all knocking the airwolf or someones decision to buy one, I just worry about things, especially when I’m spending close to $2K.
Plus… when an EMP destroys all my electronics during Russia’s pre emptive strike I’m going to need my gun…..October 24, 2007 at 6:19 am #26404teflontronParticipant
Well, the “10,000” (my bad, it’s 5,000 at 12fpe according to the manual) shots is somewhat speculative as I don’t think anyone has shot that number yet, but I would very much doubt that it’s going to just conk out in the middle of a field or target shoot. Besides, I think that someone who is serious enough to splash 2k on a Wolf is probably going to charge it before taking it out, or at least do so on a regular cycle. As for what kind of battery it is, it is a 12 Volt Nickel-metal-hydride, whatever that means. It won’t stop being supported due to Daystate’s company road map of using electronics.
The Daystate vs Rapid is an interesting issue, and both have their fans. I would say that a perfectly set-up Wolf just pips the Rapid due to being shorter, quieter and just as accurate, as well as having a better shot count. However, the Rapid is more likely to be sorted out of the box, and that counts for a lot.October 24, 2007 at 8:23 am #26409eamoParticipant
Great input lads, I wanted to stimulate a bit of debate amongst the brains of the operation ❗
The inbuilt chrony bit really intrests me, perhaps some of our great innovators could think up a way or incorporating this into air force rifles ❓
I dont think that having a chrony in the modorator is a good idea, I have had poor results with the Combro Chrony in the past, as it cant handle the muzzle blast from a condor for long, now if that was inside a modorator it the blast would be a lot worse( ❓ ), and would also lead to leading of the senors.
Is it possible to measure the time it takes a pellet to pass over two points as it travels down the barrell, last couple of inches, or is this stupid, as the pellet is accelerating?
P.S thanks for the heads up Tron on the Q.C. issues with the Daystates, I guess its not only Airforce with problems, I am beginning to think that FX make the best for the price\features
eamoOctober 24, 2007 at 8:30 am #26410
I love that oh no you didnt gif eamo !!
Another thing to think about regarding the internal chrono is that if its optical in nature and inside the gun it will end up getting lead dust on the sensors so hopefully they will have the good sense of making it easy to clean.
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