Bolt play normal?

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  • #1310
    48brian
    Participant

    ❓ I notice that when my condor is cocked and I close the bolt and turn the bolt handle to left (or rt.), though it all the way to left, I can pull it rearward another 16th”, there is that much slop foward and back. That can’t be good? Is that normal? Just got gun, am feeling a little depressed about it all. See my other posts for today and the problems. Seems like alot of problems and I havent even be able to shoot it yet (not much). Should I try to return it, bought from AA?

    #31866
    shadoh
    Participant

    Bolt play is normal. It will have more or less play depending on where you have your top hat set. You should always move it as far back as it will go so that its snug up against the top hat.

    As far as your other problems. I think you should return the tank/valve unless you want to or are able to tinker with it yourself. It sounds like you got an old style valve and not one of those new ones. Maybe some old stock or something.

    You bought it from AA? Who is that? Airguns of Arizona? They are decent guys but something like this might get sent back to the factory for repair even if you take it back to them.

    #31880
    48brian
    Participant

    Thanks for reply. Maybe thats the problem,bolt not tight againts the tophat? But that seems a bad design that the bolt can be turned to left or right in the notch and still not be seated properly,you have to both put into notch and snug againts the tophat??

    #31887
    48brian
    Participant

    Gee, I think I can make a contribution! Had a long talk with the enginier (I know I don’t spell worth a dam) at Airfoce today about the guns and my problems in particular. It seems that alot of people here are overlooking the fact that there must no or very very little bolt play with tophat (when cocked) to have good consistencey. I was told that adjusting the tophat out to meet the bolt and therefore take the play out is the way to go. Was a little dissapointed because of all the talk here of the advantages of a small tophat gap. Also my micro-meter air dumping problem is very likely because of the .177 guns pressure buildup not allowing valve to close , therefore when they know a .177 barrel is going to be used, the valve spring is made stiffer. I haven’t had the chance to test the standard tank yet (I requested a standard tank rather than the high flow)and if its dumping also I’m told to send it along with the micro-meter back to AF for adjustment. I wasn’t born yesterday but its seems to me the guy at AF Knows the facts. And they stand behind there stuff. And once again it was pointed out the difficulty with taking a bunch of parts and imediatly coming up with a well adjusted gun (unlike Glock pistols). So why are so many people advocating the adjustment of the top hat gap? What I’m I missing? Experts set us all straight please!

    #31893
    synopsys
    Participant

    Moving the top hat out to meet the breach is the wrong way to fix the issue, the engineers at AF need to make it right on the drawing board and not by moving the top hat and wasting %200 more air per shot than is needed.

    That response is really disappointing coming from AirForce or should I now say AirFarce, it is no wonder things barely work on these rifles when the blokes in charge are willing to cut corners at hope it adjusts out in the end…

    I wonder if the person you spoke with even shoots the rifles he designs, doesn’t sound like it at all if wasting air is the only solution to making the ‘too short’ breach meet the properly set tophat…

    It explains the poorly designed bi-pod, what only a half mm of aluminum should be fine to torque until it bends and eventually breaks… 🙄

    Hope this attitude isn’t the prevailing thought behind the new 10 meter AF rifle, but it is pink so who the fuck knows at this point…

    👿

    #31894
    synopsys
    Participant

    When my tophat is set ‘correctly’ according to the engineers a loud rush of extra air is blown out and around the breach, which hits me right in the side of my nose and I get 25 or less erratic shots per 1500psi of fill…

    Correctly adjusted to 0.07″ (so the pellet is still traveling at the same speed it is when the top hat is set at .1″) I can get 50+shots that group well per 1500psi… and no blowout air pushing past the breach and hitting me in the face… The breach is loose but i’m not pumping the tank up every 25 shots…

    Sometimes the best engineer isn’t the one on the job… 😆

    #31896
    anthony266
    Keymaster

    Syn is correct.

    From my experince,
    bringing the TH out to meet the breech slide will do nothing but waste air.

    I still dont know what you mean when you say when you bring your slide back there is still play.

    There is an oring on the TH end of the slide that creates a seal around the TH.

    Welcome to the madness Brian.

    #31899
    bodhisdad
    Participant

    😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆
    If it looks good on paper it must be right. That was quite a comment from AF.

    As far as brech play?? Do you mean it doesn’t fit snug as it rides on the barrel? Its perfectly fine if you have play between the tophat and the cutout section in the brech opening with the brech knob shaft. Loose brch needs some more explanation.

    #31901
    walkonking
    Participant

    What you can do to keep the bolt tight against the top hat is this…..take off the cocking knob and make a little tubular bushing to go over the threads. The thickness of this little metal or plastic tube can be adjusted to take up any gap between the nothced area of the frame and the cocking knob threads. So if you have a gap make the OD of the little bushing thicker until you get it to rest against the frame notch and the top hat securely.

    That will allow you to have a properly adjusted tophat and still allow the cocking knob to sit against the frame notch.

    I made mine from a piece of delrin but you can buy nylon bushing and drill and sand it to fit the cocking knob.

    #31905
    48brian
    Participant

    Brillant WalkonKing, such a simple soution I could not see! Now got figure how to get the bolt knob off. Thanks all.

    #31906
    synopsys
    Participant

    WOK, I tried that but to cock the rifle the ‘shim thing’ doesn’t let the breach slide forward and if it is small enough to slide forward it doesn’t take up all the play…

    A266, if the tophat is set to a decent gap when the breach is slid all the way back and the cocking knob is rotated (locked position) right of left you can push it back and forth, where if the tophat is set factory far forward (big gap) when the cocking is rotated the breach will no have front to back play.

    When (on my rifle) the gap is small (correct) the breach bounces even if it is locked right or left when the trigger is pulled…

    I left the cocking knob straight vertical thinking the bounce would increase and it doesn’t happen, so I just make sure it is set snug against the tophat and everything works fine…

    I will see if I can take a video but on DSL in may take a day or two to load to Pbucket… 😆

    #31907
    spinj
    Participant
    quote 48Brian:

    Brillant WalkonKing, such a simple soution I could not see! Now got figure how to get the bolt knob off. Thanks all.

    Just remove the bolt cover and inside there will be an allen screw. Turn the bolt all the left or right, unscrew and walla – it’s removed!

    #31908
    synopsys
    Participant

    It is threaded into the ABS breach so it will take some effort to remove, remember that the breach will still need to slide forward to cock the rifle and you filler shim thing cannot be larger that the slot the cocking knob follows…

    Unless I missed something really simple… 😕 😳

    #31912
    48brian
    Participant

    Yea Synopsys is rt, anything wide enough on bolt stem won’t go down cocking slot. But what about a longer tophat to take up the play and still adjust to a small enough tophat gap? Anybody got one? Would it work?

    #31913
    48brian
    Participant

    It seems to me any shiming must be of a very hard material and must be one peice with the tophat,any thing floating around or not hard like steel would seem to invite inconsitency and simply not be durable. With tophat somehow properly shimed, tophat could be screwed out to meet the bolt face and therefore no bolt play. ??

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