Q:

Article for regulator

Hi
According subject i m looking for article or any information for regulators
Please send me link of articles
I know why but I need more information for all of people
As I know only Experienced and professional people can use regulator but i need some article to explain everything about it
Many thanks of help

General Chat

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Viewing 15 replies - 1 through 15 (of 19 total)

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http://www.forum-airguns.com/t79761p175-plan-de-condor-airforce

on mine i have 0,6ms between each shooting so it s very good for accuracy

I’m curious to know what the real world reduction in group size is with AF rifles that are regulated. Some rifles seem to benefit a good bit from regulation, but it looks to me like the accuracy potential of unregulated AFs is already very good. I have no personal experience with AF rifles. The complexity of regulators comes at a cost I would rather avoid. Anybody have any good numbers to share?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/PCP-Airforce-Paintball-High-Pressure-Standard-Constant-Valve-300bar30MPA-Z-Valve-HPA-Tank-Pressure-Cylinder-Air/32859772826.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.27424c4dS6K7p2

i have this one(the black)
you can change output pressure with external screw
i have very good result but the plenum is low so you can t have more power than 40-45j with 16inch barrel

I need to call Nielsen and find out the optimum “land and groove” configuration for their swaged rounds.

I used a “twist rate” calculator to determine the best twist rate for those slugs to optimize ballistic coefficient.

Twist Rate Stability Calculator

TJ’s barrel liners can make custom barrel liners for specified requirements. I would need to have a gunsmith re-line a barrel blank, then machine the breech end to comply with the necessary shape and angle for AF rifles. You need to find the balance of BC, twist, and FPS to achieve stability of the projectile. Comparing the drag and stability on a pellet versus a boat tail bullet is like comparing the flight of a shuttlecock (as used in bad mitten), and a tight spiral on a football as thrown by a NFL quarterback. The bullet will shoot much flatter, and be less effected by wind.

Sounds like a pretty interesting project.
True that the first regulator rebuild normally requires changing rhe o-rings and in a later rebuild eventually polishing the stem and changing the belleville washers. But until then, some o-ring generations have done their service already.
Belleville washer power is determined based on material, thickness and stacking whereas I remember having read that stacking more than 3 washers per sub-stack does not necessarily bring more improvement, as friction between washers then becomes a factor. Better pass on to the next higher thickness in this case and remain with 3 washers max. per sub-stack. What I learned from you though (and I thank you for that information) is the fact that when stacking differently, the overall stack length varies and needs to be compensated. Could have thought about that but didn’t. Thanks for sharing!

Apologies also since it took me a while before answering, I was searching my archives for a mail with different types of barrels as I remembered the twist rates seemed to depend on caliber and projectile weight and I wanted to share the information with you.
What I found is based on Shilen barrels for PBs, but I think the same will apply to others as well. Since you want unchoked and shoot slugs, the same should apply to your project.
Here we go:
In cal .22 RF (.22 LR) there is only one twist rate which is 16:1 in their catalogue for all projectile weights. Standard seems to be 36-40gr (subsonic uses lighter projectiles, though).
In cal .22 RF (.22 short) the twist rate commonly used seems to be 20:1 or 24:1 for projectile weights of 27-29gr as standard.

In cal .224 this looks a little different though:
14:1 up to 70gr
12:1 from 71gr to 80gr
10:1 from 81gr to 100gr
8:1 up to 115gr

According to this information, if you want to shoot .224 slugs, the 1:14 should be fine, if you intend to use .22 RF type projectiles, you might want to consider 1:16 though.
And still, it seems that projectile length is determining as well for the twist rate, .22 short not only has a shorter cartridge, but seems to use a shorter projectile than .22 LR.

Ok, just looked up the Nielsen page, found 32gr hollow point boattails in .217. So not matching with the above information. What do the guys at Nielsen recommend, do you know?

Trust me Papa Schultz- I’m very methodical in my air rifle purchases. I always let my wife accumulate a tab towards her “retail therapy”. So whenever I feel that I’ve “earned” a new purchase towards my gun, I kindly remind her of the last 4 or 5 shopping outings that I encouraged her to buy something she “wanted”, not just what she “needed”. Works EVERY TIME! LOL!

I think there are multiple ways to make a regulator. Given the constant pressure exerted on them, the “weak links” will eventually wear out, regardless of the engineering behind them. The weak links in every regulator design will be the O-rings, and the spring/s (conventional or bellville washer stack). The O-rings will go first. But the springs will eventually lose their tension after being under pressure for long periods of time. That’s why I like a regulator with a bellville stack better than conventional springs. The bellville stack can be adjusted to raise or lower set pressures and tighten tolerances.

I was looking at the Huma regulator sight and noticed they gave instructions for low, medium, and high pressure settings. These settings are adjustable by the consumer, and they are achieved by changing the bellville washer configuration. So I decided to do an experiment. I changed up the configuration on my regulator. My change involved stacking the washers in a way that increased thickness at flex points, and decreased the number of flex points. Believe it or not, I had to add 3 additional washers to compensate for the loss of thickness of the overall stack. You want the stack to come in at least .2mm from the existing stack thickness. The original stack was factory set to achieve 0-150 BAR. Once you try to adjust beyond 150 BAR, the tolerance gets so tight that 1/64 of a rotation will take you from 160 BAR to 210 BAR. But the washer configuration I cam up with allows me to go from 0-200 BAR, with very easy adjust-ability between the 150-200 BAR range.

I also know some people who are machinests. I’ve been thinking about taking a piece of 1 1/4″ round stock and having them machine me a “bottle” (using the term very loosely) that only holds about .05 liters. Enough air for about 2 shots from the gun. That way I wouldn’t waste hardly any air at all when adjusting the regulator. But it’s almost more advantageous to buy a 2nd regulator and set up 2 of them for 2 different pellet profiles. Just keep the settings locked in on them.

My ultimate goal is to eventually buy an un-choked, .22 caliber barrel liner with a 14:1 twist from TJ”s barrel liners. Then I want to start shooting some of the .22 caliber Nielsen Boat Tail rounds (36 gr). They have a ridiculous ballistic coefficient. They shoot very flat, very straight, and very long. I would be able to regulate the shots. I would play around with the settings on the reg to find the sweet spot, but I think I could make my gun a small/medium game killing MACHINE with hole in hole groups are reasonably longer distances.

What do you think?

Ahhh yes, THAT trouble. Guess the only ones who don’t have it either don’t have a wife or have one who shares the hobby, hehe… on the other hand, this can be negotiated against a shopping session (shoes, clothes,…).

I have a Weihrauch HW100 where the reg and plenum are integrated in the breech and therefore the reg can be set externally (with minor dismanteling, but no degassing), very clever design in my eyes, maybe you want to have a look at it or even know it already.
Clear also that for an AF gun, due to the design, this would not be easy to implement, maybe with an intermediate part, such as the drop-down adapter but completely modified internally. Just thinking aloud…

I agree 100% about the inconvenience of taking apart the bottle for each adjustment. I spoke with Paul from PCP Tunes about the possibility of making an externally adjustable regulator instead of internally adjustable. He said that the physics behind the components and machining to make it externally adjustable would potentially shorten the operating life of the components. The regulator itself is machined from steel, not aluminum. I spoke with Paul and got all of the O-ring sizes necessary to maintenance my regulator if/when the O-rings wear out. And they eventually will. Even the externally adjustable regulators on the FX guns need to be serviced occasionally. The rubber O-rings are the weak link in the chain. It’s also good to replace the bellville washers every couple of years. You just need to pay attention to the washer stack to make sure you put them back in the same order as they came out.

So here’s what I did to save air. I bought a .2 Liter (4500 psi) paintball tank on E-Bay. Whenever I want to adjust the regulator, I adjust it using the small tank so I use less air. Then when I get it set, I drain the small tank and put the regulator back into the big CF tank. It’s the downside of my set up. But when the regulator is dialed in, it’s really consistent. Not sure if you saw my other thread “What happens when you regulate an AF rifle?”, but I posted numbers from my chronograph. You can see the consistency of the shot string. 11 FPS spread over 20 shots, which is insignificant towards variables in accuracy. I still had at least 7-9 shots before the reg cut out. If I was shooting 25gr JSB’s instead of the 34gr JSB’s, I would set the reg at 150 BAR and I could get 45-50 shots before it cut out.

Regarding the duration of time it took to get the gun upgraded…… It’s been about 1.5 years that I’ve owned it. I bought it used, and it was stock. It did come with a 4-16 x 50 AF scope, which is a decent scope. It’s not entry level, and it certainly isn’t the best. I plan on upgrading eventually. But if I upgraded everything at once, I would go broke. I get my sights set on 1 upgrade at a time, then save up to make the purchase. There are many more I want to do, but I have to be patient. The trouble isn’t the desire, or the finances. The trouble is convincing my wife that I need it…. LOL.

Perfectly logic, got it, thanks mate. Either I got the question wrong or the guy posted in the wrong forum, hummm :confusedn:

Definitely right that a good reg adds to the shot-to-shot consistency of a rifle and the easier it is adjustable, the better it is. Just annoying to blow off the air from the tank, take apart the rifle and air tube, adjust, put everything together, fill up only to find out that you start over again ‘cause there’s more improvememnt possible.
But hey, you only adjust it once until you’ve found your ideal setting and it’s part of the fun.

There are many ways to improve the AF platform indeed and I think you adressed the better part.
How long did it take you to get her set up after all? Guess I can find the whole story in the Condor section?

Funny, no return at all from Chilavia…

Reasons I mentioned what I did regarding regulator and stock on AF Rifle:

#1- The forum he’s posed the question in is “AirForce General Chat”, so it’s a safe assumption he’s inquiring about a regulator for a AF platform.

#2- The only reason that someone is interested in a regulator is because they are dissatisfied with the inconsistencies associated with shooting an unregulated rifle. regulators are PROVEN to help accuracy and efficiency with air. This is a FACT!

#3- If the guy who posted this is interested in a regulator, and he’s interested in better accuracy, I’ve given him a tad more information to make his gun even more consistently accurate. AF Rifles are EXTREMELY hold sensitive due the long bottle configuration. Since you can’t convert the AF into a bull pup design, you can buy a 1 piece stock that eliminated flex at the neck of the bottle and valve.

So those are the reasons I mentioned and endorsed the things I did.

That reg has definitely a lot speaking for itself… and no worries I am neither a fanboy of one or the other, just sharing.
Just a question, why are you talking about a regulator and a stock for AirForce rifles?
The OP has never asked for this. He asked for educative articles about regulators to learn more about the way they’re working…

The downside of Altaros is they aren’t adjustable. When you order the Altaros, you specify the caliber and regulator set pressure from the factory. Well let me ask you this…… If you’ve never had the out pressure of your tank regulated through the valve, how do you know what to set it at? If you have it set at 150 BAR (2175 psi), and you’re shooting a 25.39gr, .25 Jsb pellet at 950 FPS, and you decide you want to step up to a 33.94gr JSB, you’re FPS will drop to sub 900, and you might potentially miss the “sweet spot”. The regulator from PCP Tunes is adjustable. You want to be able to compensate for pellet caliber and weight. One of the great things about AF rifles is the interchangeability of components and barrels. What if you wanted to swap out your .25 barrel for a .22 barrel? Now you’re shooting a 18gr .22 caliber pellet at over 1000 fps, and it becomes unstable in flight. Unless you understand physics, and know how to change up the bellville washer stack in the regulator to increase or decrease the set pressure, you’re married to the pressure that the set the regulator for from the factory. The regulator from PCP Tunes is amazing! It comes set at 150 BAR, but it’s internally adjustable. I can go up to 200 BAR, or down to 0 BAR. The regulator from PCP Tunes also has dual gauges for you to watch both the tank and regulated pressure.

quote Fomen:

But I see where you were going. he does a GREAT job of explaining regulators and their functionality.

Right, that‘s how I understood the OP’s question.
If looking for a reg for AirForce rifles, I think Altaros have them, not sure about Huma.

But I see where you were going. he does a GREAT job of explaining regulators and their functionality.

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