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A 257 Cast Bullet Reference Guide

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This topic contains 363 replies, has 38 voices, and was last updated by  tnt76 2 years, 9 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 346 through 360 (of 364 total)
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  • #257359

    wll2506
    Member

    Today was just a cluster !

    After testing the gun for 5 shots I went to the local market …. making a left hand turn into their parking lot … MY FRONT RIGHT WHEEL FELL OFF ! —- Ball joint went south, luckily I was only going 20 or so miles per hour when she went… if this would have went yesterday when I was with Doug up in the boonies, I could be history !!!

    And how did the gun do this am ? It shot from 972fps to 958pfps with 5 shots. I was a bit above 3000psi I think so when I get my 4500psi tank and set the pressure at 3400+ I think I should be good for an average of 975fps for 5 shots. I’m using the standard Condor hammer so a heavier hammer may help a lot. My last shot was in the 2800psi area so that is the low zone for getting the velocity I want.

    Anyway I’m in the zone and know it can be done so I’m happy with that …….I’m not happy about my truck ;- (

    wll2506

    #257370

    knifemaker
    Member

    Dayum! That truly sucks about the Truck! At least it wasn’t’ at speed on the highway.

    No, about the Gun. As we say in Texas, Yee-Haaw!!! There ya go!!! 😉

    Don’t ya just Love it when a plan comes together!!! :8:

    Knife

    #257371

    knifemaker
    Member

    On a side note, after the heavier hammer, and higher pressure bottle, you’re probably going to want to turn Her down a notch or two if you want to stay at 975! Such problems! LOL!!! :rofl:

    Knife

    #257383

    wll2506
    Member
    quote knifemaker:

    On a side note, after the heavier hammer, and higher pressure bottle, you’re probably going to want to turn Her down a notch or two if you want to stay at 975! Such problems! LOL!!! :rofl:

    Knife

    That would be a great dilemma …… As I’m shooting bullets not pellets I don’t have to worry about velocity to much as long as i keep it sub sonic. Shot count is important so I do want 5 steady high power consistent shots … but a couple more would be great !

    The 975 fps would be great, but if everything works out smooth a few FPS more would be nice … not just for the extra energy but for the trajectory.

    I have been set on the Lyman mold at 72 to 74 grains but if all of a sudden I can get 5 shots using a 80+gr pill in the 925’s and that bullet has a BC in the .200+ well I might have to change as the BC would take over and extend the range and power greatly. I don’t want to leave any extra power on the table

    I’m in an experimental stage and I’m flip flopping from one idea to another, going on what I see on the forums and what I saw Doug and Nick do. Right now because of what I have seen the Lyman mold is very nice …. but I was thinking just a week or so ago about the speed with using a 3000 psi tank filled to the top —– the CF4500 tank I have coming changes the game, as of course does Doug’s valve. From all I have seen, heard and PM’d 3000 psi is not really the way to go with these heavy bullets and if you are in the 3000psi area, you make up for it with volume of air to keep that 3000 psi at a high level for a very few shots (my 257 with a 72gr pill shot at 958fps at 2700ish psi, you need the horsepower for 975fps +). A 490cc standard Condor tank is OK for a few shots, but a 53ci or 63ci tank is much better, that is why Cedric, Doug and others use those tanks.

    Also my aluminum tanks are 3000 rated tanks that I have, hence the reason for a CF4500 tank filled to 3400psi for safety reasons.

    PS: Have you tried the Arsenal 257388 mold / 85 grs … looks nice on their web site :- )

    My thoughts for now ;- )

    wll2506

    #257384

    wll2506
    Member
    quote LURKER #1:

    With my “257 NOBLE” Condor here is a string of 5 X 85 gr Spitzer bullets
    from about 3400 PSI to about 2950 PSI Power Wheel 2:
    1) 973
    2) 987
    3) 988
    4) 984
    5) 975
    AVG = 981
    SD = 6.5
    ES = 15

    I just punch paper for now and haven’t gotten to shoot it much yet. But I got 10 consecutive X 73 gr. rounds on standard size paper target at 200 yards. No doubt the “257 NOBLE” Condor will do much better when fully sighted in.

    Lurker, you shooting the 257388 mold with the flat tip ?

    Again, that velocity you getting with that bullet is totally off the the charts .. and that is the 5 shots I’m looking for with a 257420 73 gr bullet …. But with a 85gr bullet you have just reached the Twilight Zone !

    Do you happen to know the BC of the 85gr projectile ?

    wll2506

    #257390

    lurker-1
    Member

    No idea of the Spitzer BC yet. Not much chance to shoot lately.

    Besides, I wouldn’t care to put my Caldwell chrono down range though I still have old “iffy”, a shooting chrony that I’ve only wounded one time with a 25 cal. Slug while making my 1st and only attempt to do a BC test. My failt, I’m pretty sure I haddn’t closed the breech and the Slug dropped about 8″ from point of aim. I packed up in a hurry and didn’t examine the wound til I got home. :rofl:

    It was just slow enough that the slug punched a .25 hole just thru the front plate. I covered it with a bandaide and haven’t tried to do a BC since. :sadn:

    #257411

    knifemaker
    Member

    Will, I did try the 257388 that Cedric sent for me to try. Excellent!

    I didn’t try for Bc with them, sadly. Cedric wanted me to do a BC test, but I had just run out of them. I did do a BC test latter that week with the modded spitzer from NOE. I cut the mold down to throw them at 82 gr, and they came out to 338 BC and are ultra accurate in my gun.

    They consistently shoot into 1/2 to 3/4″ groups on my 80 yard range at 1030 fps.

    Interestingly today, I was running low on air, and decided to shoot tethered.
    I started at 3700 psi, and was getting 1027 average, and typical size groups with it.

    When I got down to 3400, the velocity was down to 990 average. At this speed, the groups shrank to half of what they were normally. She was putting 10 rounds into less than 1/4″ consistently. In fact, outside edge to outside edge was far smaller than a dime. Just one nice hole n the target!

    Thing is, I had always known that most AG bullets were more accurate at just under 1000, but I guess I sorta forgot, as I had been shooting mostly HP bullets, and wanted very good expansion.

    Lesson Learned!!! :winkn:

    Knife

    The things you learn when least expecting it!

    BC test,
    82 gr spire point .3386 BC
    Noe 80 Gr. RD HP, .2376 BC
    Lyman 254420 HP p1 gr, .2191 BC

    Thinking of having the NOE Spire Point sent out to Eric for HP service.

    Cedric is sending more or the 388’s for testing. The outcome will decide whether it is the NOE SP. or the 388 that goes! 😉

    Knife

    #257459

    wll2506
    Member
    quote knifemaker:

    Will, I did try the 257388 that Cedric sent for me to try. Excellent!

    I didn’t try for Bc with them, sadly. Cedric wanted me to do a BC test, but I had just run out of them. I did do a BC test latter that week with the modded spitzer from NOE. I cut the mold down to throw them at 82 gr, and they came out to 338 BC and are ultra accurate in my gun.

    They consistently shoot into 1/2 to 3/4″ groups on my 80 yard range at 1030 fps.

    Interestingly today, I was running low on air, and decided to shoot tethered.
    I started at 3700 psi, and was getting 1027 average, and typical size groups with it.

    When I got down to 3400, the velocity was down to 990 average. At this speed, the groups shrank to half of what they were normally. She was putting 10 rounds into less than 1/4″ consistently. In fact, outside edge to outside edge was far smaller than a dime. Just one nice hole n the target!

    Thing is, I had always known that most AG bullets were more accurate at just under 1000, but I guess I sorta forgot, as I had been shooting mostly HP bullets, and wanted very good expansion.

    Lesson Learned!!! :winkn:

    Knife

    The things you learn when least expecting it!

    BC test,
    82 gr spire point .3386 BC
    Noe 80 Gr. RD HP, .2376 BC
    Lyman 254420 HP p1 gr, .2191 BC

    Thinking of having the NOE Spire Point sent out to Eric for HP service.

    Cedric is sending more or the 388’s for testing. The outcome will decide whether it is the NOE SP. or the 388 that goes! 😉

    Knife

    Knifemaker, that is great info, thank you very much. Looking forward to the rest of your reports ;- ) I’m thinking I start with the 85gr slug at 3700 psi and let her drop to ~3100 for an average of ~950ish … pure speculation on my part, but food for thought.

    PS: I assume these are the 257388 Flat point spitzers ?

    wll2506

    #257478

    knifemaker
    Member

    Yes they are. 😉 They will be tested, along with the new LBT 94 gr spitzer.

    Knife

    #257559

    wll2506
    Member

    Got my 4500 cf tank in today, will bed liner it black, take out anti un-cocker arm, and give it a fill. I will test with 257420 slugs at 3500 psi and see if I can get the kind of speeds I’m hoping for.

    My Accurate Big Bore 257 slugs from RJ Porter are being made this weekend I was just informed ;- ) I’m very excited about this.

    I’m pretty impatient and don’t like testing this and testing that. If any of you say you use the same slug as this and can recommend a PSI fill pressure that works for you and gives you 5-7 good 950-1000fps shots … please let me know.

    If I don’t hear from anyone I will stay with my original plan of 3500….The reason I’m starting with 3500 is I don’t want to waste time shooting a 3300-3400 tank of 5-7 shots and find out they don’t don’t work. I really don’t want to go a higher PSI for this bullet, but would probably need to for a 257388 slug.

    My gun:
    257 Condor 27″ barrel from R&L – R&L Shroud.
    Doug valve and spring, set to “0” for Starters
    Standard stock hammer and weight as it comes from the factory.
    257420 73gr bullet, sized to 257.

    wll2506

    #257562

    lurker-1
    Member

    Just an heads up about the tank. Before mounting the valve make sure there is no debri roaming around inside it. Got mine from chinka a couple years ago had tiny white flakes in it and about a 2″ long spiral of drill shavings. I should have known better being it was from chinka. A few hundred rounds and the valve started leaking. With only a microscopic flaw to the surface of the valve seat. Then tapping the tank the flakes started falling out and when I used an air hose the drill shaving finally fell out.

    I should have known to inspect the tank completely. A year or so before that I received a blister packed electronic device direct from chinka, that already had a hole burnt through the bottom of the device. BTW, I refused to send it back and still have it as proof of chinka quality ;-(

    #257574

    wll2506
    Member

    Went to Lowe’s and picked up some Rust-Oleum bed liner early this am, took it to the office and started to get down to business.. Sanded the tank and cleaned it and then gave it two coats … it is drying now …;- )

    Took the breech off and took out the anti de-cocking arm … I was very, very surprised how easy this was to remove, and it WILL be done on all my Condor guns… Checked the safety out and everything works perfectly, no problems what so ever. The ability to de-cock the gun is a HUGE deal, much bigger than I was ready to admit..The fact that I use all my Condor guns in hunting scenarios almost exclusively, I should have done this with my first Condor, I was foolish not too. Safety is now manual, but that OK for me.

    I think I will be able to fill it up today and maybe shoot her tomorrow.

    My Accurate Big Bore slugs are being made this weekend, so I should get those shortly ;- ) They are bullets from a 257420 mold,

    Things are looking good ;- )

    wll2506

    #257598

    wll2506
    Member

    Took off after work to test my gun out … Went to my shooting area and set up chrono in the 15+mph wind. Tank set to 3600psi
    Shot 10 shots, the first two were at “O” on the PW and needed to be changed as shots were underpowered and I also changed the size of ammo, as the ammo was undersized … PW is now set to 4/0 and bullets sized to .257+

    Results:
    1) Velocity: 977, 993, 999, 1010, 1010, 1009, 1001, 994 (a great bell curve …. Start at 3600psi – End at 3000psi)

    The Gun, Ammo and Parts:
    1) Bullet: 73gr 257420
    2) Doug’s Valve and Doug’s spring.
    3) Standard 257 Condor 700mm barrel from R&L with shroud
    4) Standard Condor hammer and weight as the Condor comes from the factory.
    5) CF Tank from China .5L – 300bar ……. I will buy a couple more !

    My Take !
    I am absolutely ecstatic … My average velocity is 999fps … I may tailor this a bit and probably start at 3500psi as I planed to make the bell tighter .. 5 shots is what I was after and I far exceeded that, I’m really not sure if I want to touch anything —— I may have just hit the sweet spot on my first try ;- )

    It is very easy to experiment and mess around for months and end up pretty much at your starting point. I really don’t want to up the spring tension so I truly think 3500psi may be the golden area for 5-7 shots …. I just may stick a fork in it .. it is done !

    Key Important items for a 257 set up IMHO !
    1) Doug’s Valve and Spring ! A MUST, if you don’t get this IMHO don’t even start !
    2) A CF tank for 3500-3600 psi or a larger 3000psi aluminum tank for volume of air
    3) A long 257 barrel … most the guys recommend the 27″ (700mm), but !!!!!!, the 32″ will give you faster speeds. My issue was I need a shroud and a 32″ barrel with a shroud (if they make it) would be way to long !

    Anyway, there you have what I got today with my 257 Condor …. I’m extremely happy, if any of you have suggestions please post them I would love to hear your experiences.

    Will test for accuracy when the wind is not blowing 15+ mph ; – )

    wll2506

    #257599

    lurker-1
    Member

    Just for comparison, with my full Doug Noble modded 257 Condor,
    Same Lyman 73 gr. 257420 bullet,
    Approximate same hammer setting,
    BUT…
    3300 PSI Tethered,
    32″ TJ barrel,
    Avg. 1060 FPS

    I haven’t done much shooting yet and the settings above were what gave me 985 FPS Shooting 92 gr. Arsenal LFN “Noble” bullets.
    I imagine 1060 is to fast for the 73 gr.

    Over a month since I got to the range but did get on paper at 200 yards with 10 shots in about a 10″ group of 71 gr. Arsenal Boat Tails.

    I figure when I get my scope set up for Zero around 170 yards I may be able to use the top mil dot for 100 yards and the bottom mildot for 200 yards. :whistle:

    #257610

    wll2506
    Member
    quote LURKER #1:

    Just for comparison, with my full Doug Noble modded 257 Condor,
    Same Lyman 73 gr. 257420 bullet,
    Approximate same hammer setting,
    BUT…
    3300 PSI Tethered,
    32″ TJ barrel,
    Avg. 1060 FPS

    I haven’t done much shooting yet and the settings above were what gave me 985 FPS Shooting 92 gr. Arsenal LFN “Noble” bullets.
    I imagine 1060 is to fast for the 73 gr.

    Over a month since I got to the range but did get on paper at 200 yards with 10 shots in about a 10″ group of 71 gr. Arsenal Boat Tails.

    I figure when I get my scope set up for Zero around 170 yards I may be able to use the top mil dot for 100 yards and the bottom mildot for 200 yards. :whistle:

    Good going, I would love to get a 5 shot string using ‘388’s in the 950-975’s ;- )

    I’m very happy and as this is a once in a while use type gun for a specific purpose, I’m very, very happy ;- ) Remember this gun will never be tethered, it is a hunting field gun, that I want to keep light. Will not use it for GS colonies or a field of rabbits … I have other guns for that, and would most likely use pellets not slugs

    This gun is sighted in at 75 yds and I have 2.5ish” Zero Range to about 82 yards, for me a 82+ yard shot is pretty good. Some of this depends on if I put the .5 inch height rail base on the gun. This would be the only gun I would probably do this on.

    Even though I don’t normally shoot long range, this gun CAN do it, and I will have a couple of marks in the 100 and 125 yard area. This is not long range for most folks, but it is for me ;- )

    wll2506

    Continued 8-20-16:

    After shooting some 85gr’res at 940fps that were undersized, My mistake for not checking) and fit in the chamber without any resistance … I’m pretty sure I can get in the 950+ fps tomorrow. This is with the same PW setting and PSI (3600) that I’m using with the 72gr pills. I’m averaging 995+ with the 72gr bullets sized correctly.

    If, in fact if I can get 950+ fps shooting 85gr bullets, that is some kind of Coyote gun for sure, I’m figuring with a BC of .180 … I would love someone to do a test to find out what the BC really is using LabRadar !

    Getting a curve and a higher velocity would seriously be awesome … I’m already loving 995+fps with 72 gr bullets, now I’m just seeing what I can get without going crazy ! I may give the PW a boost of a partial turn to see if she will shoot the 85 gr pills at the 72gr velocity ….. That would be OFF THE CHARTS ;- )

    wll2506

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