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A 257 Cast Bullet Reference Guide

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This topic contains 363 replies, has 38 voices, and was last updated by  tnt76 2 years, 8 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 316 through 330 (of 364 total)
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  • #256912

    lurker-1
    Member

    I cleaned the molds with acetone and that fixed the size. That frankford arsenal drop out does build up.with repeated applications just like the instructions say. Oh well, I can live with taping the mold to dump the bullets.

    I think Ive found the cause of whiskers from the bullet noses. This is a 25 pould max lead pot. Thats 3 pounds more than the RCBS Thats got to increase the drop pressure. There is some kind of adjustment but I have yet to screw with it.

    Sad to say, at the end of this session I was getting some better but not perfect bullets at 850°

    If I found the correct slush melt point at 650° then adding 150 would get my pots reading to 800°. So, it may work but it puts doubt on the calibration of the built in thermometer.

    Originally i set the drop gap at 1/4″ like the manual suggest but decidef to lower the rail to 1/2 “. Casting all day at all temperatures and whiskers stayed bad. Finally giving up for the day I tried a rapid pour while sliding the mold. That didnt help so the only thing I hadnt tried was a slow easy pour. AHh, only one out of 4 with whiskers and it was a very small whisker.

    Tomorrow I’ll screw with the Shut Off Rod Limit screw to reduce the flow rate. That and decreasing the dtop gap should eliminate the whiskers that are worse on my spitzer mold.
    Then I probably should start reducing the pot temp.

    #256919

    knifemaker
    Member

    The slush point has to be temp read while coming up to heat. coming down, tells you nothing, but possibly where the insulation ends in the pot. LOL!!! It can be caused by high pressure, but it would take a lot. Such as in a true pressure pour as when placing the down spout of the pot actually into the spru-hole. Apparently the mold blocks are not fully closing. Try and find out why.

    Whiskers can also be caused by a tiny bit of lead somewhere between the blocks. Sometimes hard to see, but will keep the blocks from fully closing. Hold the closed mold under strong light and see if you can see any light between the halfs. If so, they are not fully closing.

    You have to adjust the valve as the pot gets lower. When almost or full, you need very little opening. When at 1/2 it will be much more. I continually adjust the flow rate with the screw all thru the pour to keep it consistent. 😉

    Knife

    #257012

    lurker-1
    Member

    Knife,
    You are correct. My spitzer mold shows daylight to the middle. I hadn’t cheched it out and seasoned it like I did my first two Arsenal molds. On the way home with it from the mail room, I dropped all 3 off at a neighbor to have them milled to fit the Lyman Mag 25 rail. Then too, I see I used way to much Drop Out and have had a battle with it. Holding the handles a lot tighter helps like you suggested.

    I now see why Roachcreek suggested beginners start with a top dipper pot and the Lyman 257450 2 cavity mold. I even had trouble with that setup. :whistle:

    I’m getting a few that I can use but I have lowered my standard. I’m not even close to the quality that Doug sent me.

    I’ll keep experimenting with drop height, flow rate, lead temp, mold temp, and spreu temp until I get it better. The other two molds from Arsenal are far easier for an unknown reason. If fact, I got on paper target with the Boat Tail at 200 yards.

    After I get a few dr appointments behind me, I will get back to the range. I still have some of Doug’s good bullets and a bunch of my own 71 gr Boat Tails and 257-92 gr LFN “Noble”s.

    Thanks for all the suggestions. Eventually I’ll get most of them working together.

    #257030

    knifemaker
    Member

    Good Luck Sir! The shelf on the Lyman is well, nuts! I think I would try to re-engineer it rather than modding the molds. You deed the bulk in the mold block to retain the heat for proper fill out.

    The shelf is one of the reason I went with the RCBS. That and Lyman kept pushing the release date back. For two years!!! There are harrow stories on the different casting forums about their customer service as well. Where RCBS will take care of you, even if the product was dropped 30 years ago. Lyman will not support a product they dropped two years ago. Kinda scary!

    Yep, I know what you mean on the Dr. appointments. Will be gone all day Wed. and Thur. Grrrrr!!!

    I’d rather be shooting! :8:

    Knife

    #257062

    wll2506
    Member

    I have read this thread from page 1-16 and have found it very interesting.

    I have a used 257 coming from a gentleman that very recently purchased it from R&L and the gun has not been out of his house. It has a 27″ barrel, R&L shroud, extreme valve and heavy hammer and spring (gun was bought as a kit) also included a 4×16 Airforce scope, 1/2′ high picatinny rail …. AND a Lyman 257420 bullet mold and Lee sizing die. The gun has one main reason for me owning it … Yote/Predator hunting when it is windy and I must take a Heart/Lung shot, the other reason is if I get a chance to go pig hunting out of state. I will probably sight this gun in at 75 yards, and mark off mill dots to about 125 yards.

    I plan on purchasing RJ Porters 69gr HP’s and not sure if I will cast my own or not, as I have never done it and the thought of 800deg lead spilling out scares the heck out of me …. I don’t trust myself ….maybe I’m being to cautious. My first purchase of slugs very well might be my lasts, I will never shoot this gun for target, I seriously doubt I will I use it for Jacks, as my other Condor 25’s are fine for that. RJ said I can probably shoot in the high 950-1000fps range with his 69gr HP’s … for me that works !

    This is very interesting thread and the post have been extremely informative to a newbie like me in the 257 game.

    wll2506

    #257090

    knifemaker
    Member

    I think you’re really going to enjoy it Sir!

    In the beginning of this odyssey, I felt exactly the same as you. But, when I saw first hand, just how much more accurate the .257 is at 75+ yards, especially in even a light wind, and how much less it dropped, I was hooked.

    Then, I saw that shooting the .257 was a “LOT more expensive than the .25 pellet shooter, so with the help of RockCreek, tried my hand at casting. Problem is, I found that I really enjoyed it!
    Not to mention the satisfaction of getting really tight groups with my own bullets. Much tighter than possible with pellets.

    Fast forward, and after managing to scrounge quite a bit of lead, and making bullet traps for it, (to reclaim the lead), I find that I have no desire to go back to pellets. I get to shoot all I wish, and at a tiny fraction of what pellets cost. I can choose the weight I want from 50 gr to 104 gr., Hp or flat nose. Squirrel, or pig, long range or short. Target or game. With much greater accuracy, economy, range, and wind bucking.

    You may very well find in short order, that you shoot it a “LOT”!!! 😉

    Knife

    #257091

    knifemaker
    Member
    quote LURKER #1:

    I SEE SAID THE BLIND MAN ❗ Me being the proverbial blind man that ventures into potentially dangerous technologies with equipment made readily available to anyone. But, provided without the benefit of extensive education as to potential hazards.

    Doug,
    We need you for your abilities to produce fine custom air rifles. The bullet samples you produce are excellent but though you do not charge for them, the most important hidden cost may be to your health and wellbeing.

    We live in an extremely complex and advanced world that promotes innovation while understanding that more and greater knowledge evolves from an occasional error.
    Even a deliberate national security error only means you are better experienced than anyone else. Just ask hillairy.

    All,
    Doug is an innovative machinist that does custom work at a low price. And he shares from his heart what additional knowledge he can. I and many others greatly appreciate the quality air rifles he produces.
    Doug has even helped me with upgrading a .25 mold at his own expense. And provided a variety of bullets, all of excellent shape, for me to try out. The true cost of the bullets he has made may not reflect the dangers he exposes himself to in order to help others.

    True MEN like Doug (Dyotat100) and Mike (knifemaker) are honest caring people that share the best that they have. GOD BLESS THEM BOTH ❗

    Thank you Sir!

    I care a great deal about Doug. I consider he and Tof as good personal friends. I just would like for Doug to be around for a long long time! They both have helped me tremendously. But beyond that, (which is greatly appreciated) I enjoy our conversations a great deal. Even non-Airgun related conversations. And have no desire to lose either of them!

    Knife

    #257103

    lurker-1
    Member

    I try to stay on topic at least a little but I feel that all here are my good friends.

    Knife,
    The dr put off running a pipe cleaner thru my carotid arteries. Blockage is only 60% & 40%. That was the good news. I got the hospital to make me a CD of the CT scan and I got a beautiful skeletal picture as well as all the info the doctors put off mentioning. It doesn’t hurt to tell radiology you’re going on a trip and would like to take the info along. No additional charge either.

    Running on 3000 W emergency generator to use up old stored gas.
    Hot and humid here but the AC is working good.

    I did cast some good 257420s while running just on the generator. Getting used to the new Lyman Mag 25 pot but not filling it all the way seems to work better.

    #257135

    wll2506
    Member

    OK, OK you guys got me thinking, Midway is having a clearance sale on a Lyman starter kit, and for making slugs that’s about all I will need besides a mallet, mold handles, and a lead temp gauge.

    I have a industrial metal supply house close to me so I could buy a hundred lb of lead or so and be ready to go. I would do it all from my buddies garage and keep the mold and all supplies over his house … I don’t have the room to set up a bench just to do molding. I would mold for my 25 cal condors and my 257 ….. just thinking out loud. he has a couple of Condors too and is thinking about a 45 Texan, so it would work out great !

    As a side note just finished my 257 (photo below) and will sight it in at about 20 yards for its first shots. It is an R&L set up I bought used, I just hope she shoots these 257420 slugs in the mid 900’s …. I’ll come back tomorrow with a smile on my face or I’ll be on the forum grousing about what to do — Oh ya, let me see … I do have Dougs # ; – )

    wll2506

    #257136

    lurker-1
    Member

    wll2506,
    Roughly speaking if you are several inches (about 3″) high at 20 yards you will be in the ballpark at 100 yards and maybe just hitting 1foot low at 200.
    Just a guess for 73 gr 257420 at 950 FPS. Per chair gum.

    #257138

    wll2506
    Member
    quote LURKER #1:

    wll2506,
    Roughly speaking if you are several inches (about 3″) high at 20 yards you will be in the ballpark at 100 yards and maybe just hitting 1foot low at 200.
    Just a guess for 73 gr 257420 at 950 FPS. Per chair gum.

    IF I can get 950 fps I will be golden, this is a used gun that has a pretty new R&L valve but not sure of the hammer and spring …. I think it has been changed but not sure, Did not take the whole gun apart ;- )

    IFthe slug limps out of the barrel at 850ish fps I know a heavier spring and hammer is my next option. I’m not looking for a 1050fps gun, but I would very much like in the 950 area. I honestly don’t see me ever shooting anything at over 100-125yds, as a matter of fact, for me a 75-80 yard shot is a very, very long shot, a 60 yard shot is my zero on most of my powerful PCP’s

    wll2506

    #257139

    knifemaker
    Member

    You’re going to love the .257!, I think you’ll find after a while, that the .257 is only barley getting warmed up at 60 yds. LOL!!!

    One thing I learned from RoachCreek, is that the .257 can be more accurate at 100 yards than at the 50 yard mark. And continues to longer ranges. Sometimes the bullets don’t fully stabilize at really short ranges fully. But do at longer ranges. You can see a slight wobble for the first 50-60 yards thru the scope sometimes. At 80+, they are lazer true!

    Knife

    #257149

    wll2506
    Member

    Had a couple outings and got her sighted in at 75 yards. She is averaging ~915 for 3 shots and the other two are around 900 with a PW revolution ea.

    This caliber sure has some serious power. I may go out and lower the PW setting to see if I can get a bit of a curve out of her.

    wll2506

    Edit:

    Just went out, lowered the PW to 5/0, PSi was about 3250psi from the main tank, my gun gauge is off.

    Shooting 72gr Lyman (257420 mold) .257 bullets —–933, 925, 915, 907, 897 av ~915fps. —-I’m thinking I can drop the PW another turn to get to the point she can almost open her up all the way but need less tank psi to do it … get those last two shots up a bit and the first two down a touch, and we will be there.

    This sucker sure is powerful, I’m very leery of where to shoot it.

    Here is my 257 posing for pictures ;- )

    wll2506

    #257157

    wll2506
    Member
    quote wll2506:

    Just went out, lowered the PW to 5/0, PSi was about 3250psi from the main tank, my gun gauge is off.

    Shooting 72gr Lyman (257420 mold) .257 bullets —–933, 925, 915, 907, 897 av ~915fps. —-I’m thinking I can drop the PW another turn to get to the point she can almost open her up all the way but need less tank psi to do it … get those last two shots up a bit and the first two down a touch, and we will be there.

    This sucker sure is powerful, I’m very leery of where too shoot it.

    wll2506

    Went out this am with the thought of lowering the PW to make a bell curve … Nope —- not going to happen with the setup I have ! Lowered it to 4/0 and 3/0 and although the ES seemed to be less, the power was not there over the five shot string.

    I will be buying a CF tank and going from there, I want to start with a 3300psi to 3400 psi tank fill and see if that will get a small bell curve for 5-7 shots.

    Not going for a world record for speed just want a good solid 915-935fps ish. I was hoping for a bit more in the beginning, but I must be realistic with what I have too. This gun is shooting at the upper limits on where I can shoot this gun safely also—-as this gun stands now she is Coyote ready, I’m looking for a 20ish ES for 5 shots if I can get it. I may have to pull a 3 shot string and then a PW turn for the two remaining shots, going from 5/0 to to maybe 7/0 ? I will have to what the cf tank will do, it may do a bell curve or I may need to PW it, I don’t know.

    Being very, very realistic, If I ever got three Coyote shots at the same setting with an airgun I would flip out …. I’m very much a one shot one kill kind of guy I want 5 shots for security in case I throw a bad shot or I do run into more than one, who knows ?

    I have a few things to watch out for:
    1) Too much muzzle blast and the sound goes up …. This is VERY, VERY important to me, I want to keep the sound down !
    2) Don’t want to get in the high 950’s as after shooting this gun, the more I realize – 915-925ish velocity is more than enough for my use. I would love an average of 925fps with the Cf tank after playing around to find the sweet spot ! Any little extra speed, if it does not translate into a lot more sound is OK because of the added flatter trajectory. Extra energy comes with that speed but at an average of 135ish fpe at the muzzle and over 100fpe at 140 yds I don’t care much. This gun is more than enough for its intended goals ;- )

    Probable won’t play with this gun much till I get my new tank and go from there. I may go Yote hunting as I do have 5 good shots and the first three that are are in the zone.

    Upddate :

    Been texting Doug for the last hour or so … my guns life may be changing … meet up with Doug on Friday for a 257 valve, will try it in my gun to see the speed I get and the number of shots I get with a regular Condor aluminum tank, I’m hoping I get a good 5 shots in the 915-925+ range, he is pretty confident it will do that especially if I use a CF tank at 3200 to 3400. Said 3400 would be around 1000fps, which is over what I want. 5-7 shots that average 925+ would be awesome ;- )

    wll2506

    #257166

    knifemaker
    Member

    You are going to find that Doug’s valve completely changes the character of the gun. In a very positive way. Even at a higher fps, it manages to get more shots, and a flatter string.

    Doug’s valve does a Very Good Job! Well worth it in every respect! 😉

    Knife

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