.308 project, on going.
I have been collecting parts and drawing a design for a Condor type .308.
Here is what I have done so far.
Some notes:
1. Shrouded barrel, packed with Colbond Enkamat 7010 and slot vented.
2. Two stage trigger, with slide safety.
3. High flow valve, .312″ dia. ID., made from 360 brass body and 12L14 steel slide, with PTFE valve seal. 45 deg seal surface.
4. Standard Airforce tank, ordered from Airforce.
5. Tank mount, hammer mount tube, top rail and tripper mount from 360 brass, sweat soldered (4 pcs.) to make one unit, not bolts.
6. Front shroud made from 1.25″ OD x .0312″ wall 6061-T6 Aluminum.
7. Hammer brass.
8. Ordered custom wood carved grips and front grip (if that is what that piece is called), from http://home.comcast.net/~rlandres/AirGrips.htm , I tried carving, did not work out.
9. Using modified DAQ barrel, 27″ long.
10. Cocking handles both sides, (L&R) just in case. Using Mcmaster spring cat. # 9637K25, length TBD.
11. Hoping to use clamp on barrel bands (Term?) so no set screws.
Here is the trigger group.
Having never designed and built any gun before, what does everyone think. Am I old in left field?
Sorry do not know how to post a DXF file.
Let me know your opinions, good, bad or ugly. 😀
Roy S.
All Replies
Walter:
Yah. The return spring is arranged like this:
Walter:
Yah. The return spring is arranged like this:
Fellas, are you using a spring to reset the hammer block in this design?
Looks to me a good one for managing heavy hammer springs while allowing a light trigger.
Keep up the good work for sure!
Walter…..
Shadoh:
You have a better explaination than mine.
This forum is great! I have benifited greatly from all the good ideas/designs posted here.
I didnt think much about the creep thing untill I built this trigger, and experianced it first hand. Its not bad, but could be better.
JustFor’s design is great, It sure helped me — Thanks!!
Mark
Bah, sorry MM, you hit enter before I did, you win )
I believe he means that because of the way you are using a lever to release the sear that it takes allot of travel on the trigger end to move things on the sear end.
If you move the pivot point on that lever farther away from the sear contact point, or, move the trigger mech closer to the sear you would reduce that movement/creep.
Looking at MMs drawing above I beleive he intends to lengthen that release bar and move the pivot point (would that be called a fulcrum?) farther away from the trigger/sear part of the bar.
Just for:
Actually my implementation was derived from your design. Hope you dont mind. I am just learning this trigger stuff, and didnt really understand a two stage trigger untill I saw yours.
The creap is when you feel the second stage lever engage, and you have to pull through a distance before the hammer drops. That distance is the creap. It is the distance you have to move the trigger before the sear lets go — the shorter the better.
I left play between the forked lever and the lever that engages the fork. When you start to pull the trigger you can feel when the play is taken up. This gives the shooter a hint of when the trigger is about ready to let go. On my trigger its another .040 of creep before it lets go. If I change the lenght of the levers, I could make the creep only .020 or so — a little better.
Your gun looks GREAT so far – Keep up the good work !!
Mark
MM, please explain what you mean by creep.
Had I known that you had a design like that, I would have ask you for information in the first place.
Thanks for the information, looks good. At least I know now that it will at least work. 🙂
Just For:
I have a similar trigger built and tested.
It works out ok, but there is some creep in the second stage.
A spring plunger applies about 2 pounds of force to the backside of the trigger. This 2 pounds is the first stage pressure.
It takes another 1 pound 10 ounces to trip the second stage. The second stage pull is a little long (with creep) due to the geometry of the components. The sear notch is about .020 inch and that gets multiplied by the leverage to be about .040 or so of second stage pull length.
If I were to do it over (I will on the next gun), I would change the lever lengths to shorten the second stage pull length.
All things said, this trigger is far superior to the previous single stage triggers I have built.
The button safety works out really nice. Another spring plunger makes it pop on and pop off.
Check out the Lyman trigger pull gauge that my son gave to me for xmas.
Its a really nice tool for a gun builder. I think they are about $50.
The last drawing has the levers changed to shorten the second stage pull. I have not yet built this version.
I have never owned and or held in my hands any Airforce gun.
I have looked at and read many posts, then I went for a design.
Good or bad, it is my design.
I have rec’d. many requests for my drawings, 8 countries. I have rec’d. photos from 11 people that have completed a gun from my drawings. Sad I can not complete a gun I designed, before others have used the limited information I was able to provide to complete a usable gun.
If I were not retired, I might have more time to build what I can think up.
Another issue, for my wood grip and fore grip (I assume that’s what it is called) I have ask Rick to carve me a set (http://home.comcast.net/~rlandres/AirGrips.htm) talk about a great person to deal with.
Once the weather is better, we will be heading North, I’ll get more done in the spring. 🙂
Until then.
THANKS! Justforfun,
I recieved the drawings. My software would not open it, but I loaded the stuff you sent and found an export option and was able to export it from there as a DXF file.
I cannot tell you how much this helps, I do not have one of these rifles that I can “reverse engineer”.
Your generousity is much appreciated.
I have been sending out drawings, hope they work for you.
Have not made any progress on this project. Not at home and that is where the tools are.
Once we return I’ll hopefully have enough time to complete the project before our next trip.
Kind of sucks being retired, no time for projects. 🙂
Greetings,
I sent you a pmsg, please send me a file of the drawings you have on this rifle. All my info is in the mesage. I thank oyu again for your time.
I like the way you are using the brass and silver soldering stuff together.
That would make a very clean assembly.
I look forward to hearing from you.
Looked at the drawing again, and I think the creep that I was seeing can be controled by the width of the slot in the top of the trigger. when the rifle is cocked, the middle linkage will have to be touching both the top and the bottom of the “fork” formed by the open slot on the trigger. It is just on of those things where I would make it too narrow to start with and “work it in untill it ‘s there. Looking forward to seeing the progress on this project.
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The reason I put what I put on this forum is for people to look at, make them think and offer comments. Seeing as I have never attempted anything like this before, I started blind. With comments from others and watching what they are and or have done, I’m now only half blind.
I am using 3 springs, 2 compression and one torsion. The thing that locks the hammer in the cocked position will use a torsion spring.
I made the side of the trigger housing removable so I had more access to the working parts.
If I wanted to make it all a big secret, I’d have to be more stupid than I am, to post it for everyone to see. 🙂
Some great ideas on this forum, just another way to have fun.
Thanks for the input and the explanation of creep.