.22 cal 12" vs. 24" barrel Talon Tank @ 12 and 20

Home Forums AirForce Talon/Talon SS .22 cal 12" vs. 24" barrel Talon Tank @ 12 and 20

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  • #1208
    blackops
    Participant

    *****still working on post ***need some sleep LOL more***I’ll finish it tomorrow…

    I brought back a 24″ .22 barrel to do some testing on efficiency @ 12 and 20 fpe…

    The Equipment:
    Talon SS
    Stock SS tank w/ steel washer behind tophat to limit power.
    Breach slide has 1/16″ felt on it “Hammer Slap Mod”
    Crosman Wadcutter 14.3 grain
    Daisy Domes 14.3 grain
    Crow Magnum 18.2 grain
    Combro Chronograph

    Notes:
    TH = Tophat adjusted
    PW12 = Power wheel set on 12
    PW6 = Power wheel set on 6

    Jan 4th shooting 12″ and 24″ barrels
    3,045 psi to 2,900 psi = 145 psi (shots 1-29)
    Total 334.9 fpe (shots 1-29)
    Average 5psi/shot (shots 1-29)
    Average .434 fpe/psi used (shots 1-29)

    3,045 psi to 2,581 psi = 464 psi (shots 30-90)
    Total 1256 fpe (shots 30-90)
    Average 7.6psi/shot (shots 30-90)
    Average .3694 fpe/psi used (shots 30-90)

    Jan 5th shooting all 24″ barrel
    2,900 psi to 2393 psi = 507 psi for 105 shots
    Total 2,115 fpe
    Average 4.8psi/shot
    Average .2397 fpe/psi

    # FPS FPE Wt. Power setting/Notes
    1 670 14.3 14.3 PW10 12″ Crosman Wadcutter
    2 686 14.9 14.3 PW10 12″ Crosman Wadcutter
    3 680 14.7 14.3 PW10 12″ Crosman Wadcutter
    4 543 9.4 14.3 PW10 12″ – TH
    5 634 12.8 14.3 PW10 12″ – TH
    6 600 11.4 14.3 PW10 12″ Crosman Wadcutter
    7 598 11.4 14.3 PW10 12″ Crosman Wadcutter
    8 593 11.2 14.3 PW10 12″ Crosman Wadcutter
    9 589 11.0 14.3 PW10 12″ Crosman Wadcutter
    10 597 11.3 14.3 PW10 12″ Crosman Wadcutter
    11 587 10.9 14.3 PW10 12″ Crosman Wadcutter
    12 595 11.2 14.3 PW10 12″ Crosman Wadcutter
    13 569 10.3 14.3 PW10 12″ Crosman Wadcutter
    14 578 10.6 14.3 PW10 12″ Crosman Wadcutter
    15 574 10.5 14.3 PW10 12″ Crosman Wadcutter
    16 576 10.5 14.3 PW10 12″ Crosman Wadcutter
    17 638 12.9 14.3 PW10 12″ – TH
    18 609 11.8 14.3 PW10 12″ – TH
    19 610 11.8 14.3 PW10 12″ Crosman Wadcutter
    20 610 11.8 14.3 PW10 12″ Crosman Wadcutter
    21 614 12.0 14.3 PW10 12″ Crosman Wadcutter
    ________________________________________________
    22 627 12.5 14.3 PW6 24″ Crosman Wadcutter
    23 576 10.5 14.3 PW12 24″ Crosman Wadcutter
    24 581 10.7 14.3 PW12 24″ Crosman Wadcutter
    25 582 10.8 14.3 PW12 24″ Crosman Wadcutter
    26 596 11.3 14.3 PW12 24″ Crosman Wadcutter
    27 585 10.9 14.3 PW12 24″ Crosman Wadcutter
    28 585 10.9 14.3 PW12 24″ Crosman Wadcutter
    29 581 10.7 14.3 PW12 24″ Crosman Wadcutter
    ________________________________________________
    30 840 22.4 14.3 PW12 12″ Recharge 210 BAR
    31 831 21.9 14.3 PW12 12″ – TH
    32 800 20.3 14.3 PW12 12″ – TH
    33 789 19.8 14.3 PW12 12″ Crosman Wadcutter
    34 792 19.9 14.3 PW12 12″ Crosman Wadcutter
    35 771 18.9 14.3 PW12 12″ – TH
    36 778 19.2 14.3 PW12 12″ Crosman Wadcutter
    37 766 18.6 14.3 PW12 12″ – TH
    38 766 18.6 14.3 PW12 12″ Crosman Wadcutter
    39 761 18.4 14.3 PW12 12″ Crosman Wadcutter
    40 791 19.9 14.3 PW12 12″ Crosman Wadcutter
    41 788 19.7 14.3 PW12 12″ Crosman Wadcutter
    ________________________________________________
    42 805 20.6 14.3 PW12 24″ Crosman Wadcutter
    43 793 20.0 14.3 PW12 24″ Crosman Wadcutter
    44 797 20.2 14.3 PW12 24″ Crosman Wadcutter
    45 797 20.2 14.3 PW12 24″ Crosman Wadcutter
    46 806 20.6 14.3 PW12 24″ Crosman Wadcutter
    47 808 20.7 14.3 PW12 24″ Crosman Wadcutter
    48 792 19.9 14.3 PW12 24″ Crosman Wadcutter
    49 807 20.7 14.3 PW12 24″ Crosman Wadcutter
    50 797 20.2 14.3 PW12 24″ Crosman Wadcutter
    51 784 19.5 14.3 PW12 24″ Crosman Wadcutter
    52 816 21.1 14.3 PW12 24″ Crosman Wadcutter
    53 802 20.4 14.3 PW12 24″ Crosman Wadcutter
    54 802 20.4 14.3 PW12 24″ Crosman Wadcutter
    55 801 20.4 14.3 PW12 24″ Crosman Wadcutter
    56 805 20.6 14.3 PW12 24″ Crosman Wadcutter
    57 793 20.0 14.3 PW12 24″ Crosman Wadcutter
    58 811 20.9 14.3 PW12 24″ Crosman Wadcutter
    59 801 20.4 14.3 PW12 24″ Crosman Wadcutter
    60 811 20.9 14.3 PW12 24″ Crosman Wadcutter
    61 801 20.4 14.3 PW12 24″ Crosman Wadcutter
    62 799 20.3 14.3 PW12 24″ Crosman Wadcutter
    63 818 21.2 14.3 PW12 24″ Daisy Domes
    64 822 21.5 14.3 PW12 24″ Daisy Domes
    65 828 21.8 14.3 PW12 24″ Daisy Domes
    66 819 21.3 14.3 PW12 24″ Daisy Domes
    67 816 21.1 14.3 PW12 24″ Daisy Domes
    68 823 21.5 14.3 PW12 24″ Daisy Domes
    69 820 21.3 14.3 PW12 24″ Daisy Domes
    70 795 20.1 14.3 PW12 24″ Crosman Wadcutter
    71 766 18.6 14.3 PW12 24″ Crosman Wadcutter
    72 762 18.4 14.3 PW12 24″ Crosman Wadcutter
    73 731 17.0 14.3 PW12 24″ Crosman Wadcutter
    74 806 20.6 14.3 PW12 24″ Crosman Wadcutter
    75 828 21.8 14.3 PW12 24″ Crosman Wadcutter
    76 816 21.1 14.3 PW12 24″ Crosman Wadcutter
    77 824 21.6 14.3 PW12 24″ Crosman Wadcutter
    78 833 22.0 14.3 PW12 24″ Crosman Wadcutter
    79 835 22.1 14.3 PW12 24″ Crosman Wadcutter
    80 820 21.3 14.3 PW12 24″ Crosman Wadcutter
    81 805 20.6 14.3 PW12 24″ Crosman Wadcutter
    82 828 21.8 14.3 PW12 24″ Daisy Domes
    83 819 21.3 14.3 PW12 24″ Daisy Domes
    84 814 21.0 14.3 PW12 24″ Daisy Domes
    85 833 22.0 14.3 PW12 24″ Daisy Domes
    86 835 22.1 14.3 PW12 24″ Daisy Domes
    87 816 21.1 14.3 PW12 24″ Daisy Domes
    88 825 21.6 14.3 PW12 24″ Daisy Domes
    89 839 22.3 14.3 PW12 24″ Daisy Domes
    90 829 21.8 14.3 PW12 24″ Daisy Domes

    Jan 5th shooting all 24″ barrel
    2,900 psi to 2393 psi = 507 psi for 105 shots
    Total 2,115 fpe
    Average 4.8psi/shot
    Average .2397 fpe/psi

    # FPS FPE Wt. Power setting/Notes
    1 877 24.4 14.3 PW12 24″ Crosman Wadcutter
    2 763 18.5 14.3 PW12 24″ TH Crosman Wadcutter
    3 757 18.2 14.3 PW12 24″ TH Crosman Wadcutter
    4 806 20.6 14.3 PW12 24″ TH Crosman Wadcutter
    5 816 21.1 14.3 PW12 24″ Crosman Wadcutter
    6 808 20.7 14.3 PW12 24″ Crosman Wadcutter
    7 798 20.2 14.3 PW12 24″ Crosman Wadcutter
    8 797 20.2 14.3 PW12 24″ Crosman Wadcutter
    9 808 20.7 14.3 PW12 24″ Crosman Wadcutter
    10 806 20.6 14.3 PW12 24″ Crosman Wadcutter
    11 798 20.2 14.3 PW12 24″ Crosman Wadcutter
    12 797 20.2 14.3 PW12 24″ Crosman Wadcutter
    13 801 20.4 14.3 PW12 24″ Crosman Wadcutter
    14 806 20.6 14.3 PW12 24″ Crosman Wadcutter
    15 806 20.6 14.3 PW12 24″ Crosman Wadcutter
    16 809 20.8 14.3 PW12 24″ Crosman Wadcutter
    17 809 20.8 14.3 PW12 24″ Crosman Wadcutter
    18 806 20.6 14.3 PW12 24″ Crosman Wadcutter
    19 819 21.3 14.3 PW12 24″ Crosman Wadcutter
    20 820 21.3 14.3 PW12 24″ Crosman Wadcutter
    21 817 21.2 14.3 PW12 24″ Crosman Wadcutter
    22 808 20.7 14.3 PW12 24″ Crosman Wadcutter
    23 821 21.4 14.3 PW12 24″ Crosman Wadcutter
    24 806 20.6 14.3 PW12 24″ Crosman Wadcutter
    25 806 20.6 14.3 PW12 24″ Crosman Wadcutter
    26 797 20.2 14.3 PW12 24″ Crosman Wadcutter
    27 814 21.0 14.3 PW12 24″ Crosman Wadcutter
    28 801 20.4 14.3 PW12 24″ Crosman Wadcutter
    29 800 20.3 14.3 PW12 24″ Crosman Wadcutter
    30 812 20.9 14.3 PW12 24″ Daisy Domes
    31 797 20.2 14.3 PW12 24″ Daisy Domes
    32 806 20.6 14.3 PW12 24″ Daisy Domes
    33 805 20.6 14.3 PW12 24″ Daisy Domes
    34 820 21.3 14.3 PW12 24″ Daisy Domes
    35 814 21.0 14.3 PW12 24″ Daisy Domes
    36 810 20.8 14.3 PW12 24″ Daisy Domes
    37 806 20.6 14.3 PW12 24″ Daisy Domes
    38 809 20.8 14.3 PW12 24″ Daisy Domes
    39 811 20.9 14.3 PW12 24″ Daisy Domes
    40 809 20.8 14.3 PW12 24″ Daisy Domes
    41 807 20.7 14.3 PW12 24″ Daisy Domes
    42 802 20.4 14.3 PW12 24″ Daisy Domes
    43 810 20.8 14.3 PW12 24″ Daisy Domes
    44 816 21.1 14.3 PW12 24″ Daisy Domes
    45 811 20.9 14.3 PW12 24″ Crosman Wadcutter
    46 804 20.5 14.3 PW12 24″ Crosman Wadcutter
    47 801 20.4 14.3 PW12 24″ Crosman Wadcutter
    48 801 20.4 14.3 PW12 24″ Crosman Wadcutter
    49 792 19.9 14.3 PW12 24″ Crosman Wadcutter
    50 808 20.7 14.3 PW12 24″ Daisy Domes
    51 798 20.2 14.3 PW12 24″ Daisy Domes
    52 797 20.2 14.3 PW12 24″ Daisy Domes
    53 797 20.2 14.3 PW12 24″ Daisy Domes
    54 793 20.0 14.3 PW12 24″ Daisy Domes
    55 785 19.6 14.3 PW12 24″ Daisy Domes
    56 788 19.7 14.3 PW12 24″ Daisy Domes
    57 789 19.8 14.3 PW12 24″ Daisy Domes
    58 792 19.9 14.3 PW12 24″ Daisy Domes
    59 791 19.9 14.3 PW12 24″ Daisy Domes
    60 794 20.0 14.3 PW12 24″ Daisy Domes
    61 793 20.0 14.3 PW12 24″ Daisy Domes
    62 799 20.3 14.3 PW12 24″ Daisy Domes
    63 796 20.1 14.3 PW12 24″ Daisy Domes
    64 788 19.7 14.3 PW12 24″ Daisy Domes
    65 789 19.8 14.3 PW12 24″ Daisy Domes
    66 804 20.5 14.3 PW12 24″ Daisy Domes
    67 740 17.4 14.3 PW12 24″ TH Daisy Domes
    68 766 18.6 14.3 PW12 24″ TH Daisy Domes
    69 733 17.1 14.3 PW12 24″ TH Daisy Domes
    70 705 15.8 14.3 PW12 24″ TH Daisy Domes
    71 673 14.4 14.3 PW12 24″ TH Daisy Domes
    72 831 21.9 14.3 PW12 24″ TH Daisy Domes
    73 823 21.5 14.3 PW12 24″ TH Daisy Domes
    74 788 19.7 14.3 PW12 24″ TH Daisy Domes
    75 790 19.8 14.3 PW12 24″ Daisy Domes
    76 794 20.0 14.3 PW12 24″ Daisy Domes
    77 782 19.4 14.3 PW12 24″ Daisy Domes
    78 795 20.1 14.3 PW12 24″ Daisy Domes
    79 796 20.1 14.3 PW12 24″ Daisy Domes
    80 795 20.1 14.3 PW12 24″ Daisy Domes
    81 803 20.5 14.3 PW12 24″ Daisy Domes
    82 793 20.0 14.3 PW12 24″ Daisy Domes
    83 798 20.2 14.3 PW12 24″ Daisy Domes
    84 790 19.8 14.3 PW12 24″ Daisy Domes
    85 800 20.3 14.3 PW12 24″ Daisy Domes
    86 777 24.4 18.2 PW12 24″ Crow Magnum
    87 766 23.7 18.2 PW12 24″ Crow Magnum
    88 763 23.5 18.2 PW12 24″ Crow Magnum
    89 762 23.5 18.2 PW12 24″ Crow Magnum
    90 745 22.4 18.2 PW12 24″ Crow Magnum
    91 773 19.0 14.3 PW12 24″ Daisy Domes
    92 777 19.2 14.3 PW12 24″ Daisy Domes
    93 775 19.1 14.3 PW12 24″ Daisy Domes
    94 766 18.6 14.3 PW12 24″ Daisy Domes
    95 766 18.6 14.3 PW12 24″ Daisy Domes
    96 759 18.3 14.3 PW12 24″ Crosman Wadcutter
    97 764 18.5 14.3 PW12 24″ Crosman Wadcutter
    98 763 18.5 14.3 PW12 24″ Crosman Wadcutter
    99 740 17.4 14.3 PW12 24″ Crosman Wadcutter
    100 758 18.2 14.3 PW12 24″ Crosman Wadcutter
    101 757 18.2 14.3 PW12 24″ Daisy Domes
    102 770 18.8 14.3 PW12 24″ Daisy Domes
    103 768 18.7 14.3 PW12 24″ Daisy Domes
    104 772 18.9 14.3 PW12 24″ Daisy Domes
    105 760 18.3 14.3 PW12 24″ Daisy Domes

    Jim.

    #31015
    bodhisdad
    Participant

    Jim hows the back today?

    Be nice if we could add some threads to the stem as this would make shimming obsolete. I have tried with a hand die, and got a spin around. Felt like i could mess the stem up if i forced it so i stopped. I assume they thread the stem prior to drilling and porting it. Any ideas on this?? I see where your going with this and it would be awesome to have a fully adjustable tophat one in which you could turn it almost all the way down.

    What are you using as a shim/s now?

    #31016
    blackops
    Participant

    Hey Bod, they leave the threads short so the set screws don’t crush the threads…my screws tighten onto the flat unthreaded part.

    For now I’m using a steel washer that I leave in there.

    When I get home I’m going to make new 1 piece valve stems and an assortment of “shims” prolly nylon washers with a little slot cut into it so it “clips” onto the stem and won’t fall off. I’ll tune them to thickness and swap them depending on the exact power I want IE 6’ish fpe for Pigeons in a barn or basement plinking, 12 fpe super quiet suburban hunting or 12 fpe limit field target, 20 fpe regular USFT and normal hunting, ?? fpe no shim when I want max power for some reason?

    😆 my back is aching! 2 hours last night and 2 hours today WOOT! very happy I’m getting in my shooting FINALLY! I’ll take the back ache and 😀

    Jim.

    #31018
    blackops
    Participant

    Dang I wish I had that Condor tank 😡 I’m thinking there might be some efficiency gain from using a large valve only opened a little and for a short time… I’ll test that out later.

    ➡ Do you guys like that charts with notes or all the numbers and notes or both? or neither 😆

    Jim.

    #31042
    walkonking
    Participant

    Blackops,

    That is an awesome post. It must of taken a lot of time to compile. I am going to file it in the reference section.

    Thanks

    #31078
    blackops
    Participant

    Thanks WOK! I’m going to look over it again and make sure I got it all right 😆 after a couple hours it all looks the same 😆 😆

    Got some SWEET groups in yesterday also and found out by accident that holding the gun oh so lightly I was able to shoot a couple groups 3/8″ groups @ 35 yards!!!! woot! normally I’m lucky to get a 7/8″ group…funny last night I read Bod and a couple others mention lightly holding the gun gave them thier best groups 😆 it sure worked for me!

    Jim.

    #34002
    cy
    Participant

    awesome post!!!

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