mebelowsea post on TOG 12Dec06
Do any of you guys from the TOG era remember mebelowsea and his post? It regarded the building of an LDC using “Ceiling Buttons!” It was a rather engenius article, and caught the attention of quite a few guys.
I’m curious as to how well the idea worked.
Secondly, do any of you have the pictures he included of his fabrication?
Initially, Gamebred, was going to host the downloading of the pics, as I guess mebelowsea had sent them to him (Gamebred), as the TOG gallery was down for a time.
I’m still trying to reach the ULTIMATE in quietness with my SS. It’s pretty quiet now, but I’ve not achieved the “……..only hear the hammer slap…”
stage yet. Granted, I don’t have a drilled bushing, nor holes drilled under the foregrip, etc.. Therein lies the challenge. I think it’s possible to achieve that level of quietness, without the use of a machine shop.
Then again, maybe I’m just a foolish old man! 😀
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I’d say that quiet is when my neighbors stand outside and watch me point the gun only to lower it again without firing a shot.
Or… when the report is lower than the hammer slap, given the hammer slap mod… which I need to do.
Here’s a question I’ve asked myself many times. Didn’t like my answers, so I’ll ask you guys.
In terms of NOISE emminating from our Talons’, how “Loud” is Loud, and how quiet is “quiet.” I’ve tried for so long to achieve the elusive “quiet.”
And the NOISE may have gone from loud to not as loud,………or louder.
But the elusive has eluded me.
So how loud, in terms of decibels, is loud!!
And how quiet, is QUIET!!
😀 😀
Python man I TOTALLY forgot about the plastic part of the hair curlers! those are easy to use and already have holes…no more drilling holes in PVC for me WOOT!!! going to be robbing my Mom soon 😆
Jim.
If you guys are looking to do something like Weihrauch does, I found the supports for your wife’s hair curlers are about the right size. Some use springs and some plastic that look about like the others up top. Guess you could go to Walmart and find some really small curlers and that would allow you to put a thicker layer of absorbing material in there.
The OD of the Logun is 1.21″. The OD of the end of the frame is somewhere around 1.24″.
I don’t think it’d go in a shroud. I guess it just looks way too cool with it anyway. 😉
what is the Outside diameter of the logun ldc? 1″- 1.24-1.5″ my thought is to make an extention which would fit inside the frame of the condor and reach out to the end of the logun LDC. You could then vent the bottom of the ldc and vent your bushings ann frame. The difficulty of the project would depend on the dia of the logun.
I wouldn’t consider venting it, as when i’m pushing 35-40fpe from my TSS with my foregrip off {bushings/frame vented) it gets much louder. Not to mention what the inside of the logun look like. But if yuo could vent it into a piece of ali shroud then you have created a huge expansion chamber which would make a huge difference. If its 1″ the project would be very easy, 1.25″ a little harder but still doable 1.5″ might need someones help. Maybe PM Tony and see if he has any ideas??
Yes, it is screw on type. I have considered venting the LDC but don’t want to try it unless someone else here has done it with positive results.
I got a chance to chrony the gun today.. with the wheel on 1 it’s still doing about 850 fps with Exacts. Eun Jins at 1080 fps with the wheel on 13. I keep it subsonic.
I think the problem lies in the fact that the logun mod is made for a gun which pushes 30-35fpe vs what the Condor pushes. Have you vented your bushings and frame, i would think this would help alot. So long as the air has a way into the frame which i doubt. I suspect its a screw on the end of the barrel type??
I am playing with a vented endcap on my TSS, still in progress, will update you guys if I figure anything new out.
I can say that I don’t think the vents make it any louder…….It is pretty damn quiet to start with.
Bod,
I’m using a Logun on a 24″ Condor. I know the biggest part of that is volume. But at the same time, it isn’t really satisfactory unless the powerwheel is cranked down to 1. Even then it’s no “puff”. I’m just flipping ideas to get more from what I’ve got.
Thanks
Brandon
Closed cell foams defeat the purpose as they don’t allow air to pass through them. I have felt that’s near a 1/4″ thick that works great. I don’t remember where i got it, i tore something apart and found it. Wrapping several layers of regular felt might do the trick. Visit your local womens sewing/fabric store store 😆 all kinds of fabrics, foams, sponges to be had there, maybe some good ideas for you. The expansion chamber is pretty important as it gives the air somewhere to go, disperses it. Some goes rearward if you vented your bushing and frame. I have a huge amount of air escapeing from the 4 holes i drilled, so i know for fact frame venting works along with the expansion chamber. The pic i posted of the comercial Weirach shroud is basicly 3 expansion chambers, not baffles. I saw a decibel chart of all the major brands of pickles. The Weirach was the most effective per the chart. It was posted by a individual and not by Weirach. The felt that is pictured is about the thickness i have. The expansion chamber on my TSS is close to 3″ long and the rest is as you see it. I was shooting a few weeks ago from inside my kitchen and thought i was getting soft shots it was so quiet. Try a layout like mine and you’ll be a happy camper, i guaranty it. The holes in the expansion chamber should be around an 1/8″ vs. what is pictured above. Do you have the means to do this?? I could send you something, the PVC chamber slides right over a 12″ barrel, and rests on the bushing. I have a 18″ in now and am working on a baffle setup for it. Let me know if i can help. Don’t know about a depressureization hole in the shroud itself. If your not quiet enough something is up with your internal components. Got any pics of your setup??
ATP…… I don’t know if this is of any help to you but it got me thinking…. For the filter system in my saltwater tank I buy some synthetic material at the fish supply store called “filter floss”. It has the density and flexibility you may be looking for. I have tons of it and would send you some if you want to check it out.
Harry
Has anyone experimented with drilling a small vent hole in an LDC? If you consider the large expansion volume available inside the frame of Talons and the fact that venting them still increases efficiency… Seems to me it might make LDCs considerably more effective using the same principle.
How important is having an expansion chamber before baffles begin? I don’t believe LDCs such as Loguns are designed with expansion chambers in effect are they?
Also, has anyone found a better sound absorbing material than felt or a scotchbright… seems to me that would be a very large part of it. If it’ll fit, might even try wrapping it double or triple thick. Closed-cell automotive dampeners such as Overkill might work great.
Brandon
Thats the pics. They work as well as the washer, 1″od tubing cut at various lengths to break up the harmonics combo as far as my ears can tell. Drilling the bushing and frame gets one about half way, then a nice 2.5-3″ air chamber in front of barrel followed by a series of tubing washers does the rest. Or as Black Ops has pict. the series of ceiling washers, YN uses or has used finish washers which have a unique design hard to explain but one can get the idea if they see them.
Its been my experience that the two most improtant things to do is 1. vent the bushing/frame. 2. Allow for a 2.5″-3″ expansion chamber right in front of the barrel. I use a pvc tube which slides over my barrel and is held in center with a 1″ urethane bushing. I have redone my PVC since and drilled smaller more numerous holes 1/8″ vs. 1/4″ this is then wrapped with a permiable material. The scotch brite pads, or felt are good choices. I also wrap my barrel between the bushings lightly with the same material this lets air out yet muffles the report. A spring of the same length 3/4″, 5/8″ od can be used just as well a pvc tubing. If you push past 30 fpe or so the spring is less viable as the pressures within will shift things around, had enough of that and switched to the pvc. 40fpe and pellet clipping is no fun in that little area.
The configuration above is what your after, be it springs, copper, pvc, whatever material. The ceiling washers will do as well. This is the last of what i consider a 3 part configuration, combination. The last of which is your baffle arrangement which i think is pretty simple when it come to the TSS frame. After the 3″ expansion chamber you have roughly 2.5″ to break up what sound and air is left, that the expansion chamber and the vented frame hasn’t already distributed. The sizes should not be the same due to harmonics. Example would be 1″ 1″ .5″ or .75″ .75″ 1″. I have had no problems with say 1″ .5″ 1″ as long as it doesn’t follow the last baffle in size.
Meb’s post was well done and thought out, but to the naked ear i can tell little difference. I guess someone could do some testing with the right recording equipment. But in the end if you can’t notice it with the ear it matters little what the graph shows. This is all in concerns to a TSS with a 12″ barrel. I will be working on a shroud in the future and a 18″ barrel in which i’m sure some of these rules will change on me?? Till then try to keep it simple, as it is. I leave you with the internals of a weirach silencer, reputed to be one of the quietest out there. Really simple. I have considered doing the same with my pvc tubing, but hear more hammer slap then anything, no point in doing so.
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Interesting question Shaky as my guns are quiter(at 20 fpe and less) than the pellet impact now but I want them quiter. My ultimate quite is like the guys guns I’ve heard on video from over in the UK. You hear the slightest pfft and the rabbit kicks and is dead. I’m sure no one would even hear those guns but they are at 12fpe. My SS set at 8-10fpe and the PW at 0 is damned near silent. The pellet impact sounds horrendous compared to the report though. At 20 fpe it has a bit of a pop but the pellet it still louder…at full power 28-30 fpe it definitely is making some air noise and might be on par with the pellet impact?
Noise you hear is VERY subjective also…some of the guys on here have done some tests listening to someone else shoot the gun while they were down range…some said the gun sounded loud firing it but like 50 feet away they couldn’t hear it…I think this is prolly what the sub 12fpe UK guys are like.
The quietest I have had my gun is with a 1/4″ felt pad on the breach slide to silence the hammer slap, 12″ barrel and 12″ frame extension using felt baffles…I need to try the felt hammer slap mod again as it kept getting oil on the tape and falling off…it also cost me approx 50 fps because it was such a cushion but it was so quiet.
Oh yea o-ring the valve also as there is a good puff of air/noise from it too. My current gun is not o-ringed yet either.
I know others have gotten the decibal meter from Radio Shack and measured the noise as well as I think recorded it on a computer…I don’t recall the decibal readings though, they were on the TOG and it is gone.
Almost forgot, if your valve is slamming into the tank some kind of soft washer between it and the tank will probably help with ping or a smacking sound. I’m using a metal washer as a shim currently and I know it is makinf noise in the tank and out.
Jim.