It is currently Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:36 pm


Welcome to TalonAirgun.com Guest!    Register  Or performs the  Login       

Information: The foremost Website for the discussion and tuning of AirForce Airguns

Nosler®(.22)Ballastic tip airgun 'BULLET' 18gr :~)

Advice and stories about hunting and stalking. WARNING: A Thread's contents may be GRAPHIC.

Moderators: PANDEMIC, WalkonKing, Y

Nosler®(.22)Ballastic tip airgun 'BULLET' 18gr :~)

Postby 07condor22 » Thu Apr 26, 2012 12:46 pm

Seems crosman is marketing a ballistic tip .22 airgun bullet manufactured by Nosler® Looks good, will it be accurate?

Image

http://www.crosman.com/gear/ammo/14001


Model Number 14001
Weight 18 grains
Caliber .22 ballistic tip

Sam 8-)
_________________Image

__________/\__________Shoot like ya life depends on iT or ya dog?
User avatar
07condor22
 
Posts: 1573
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2008 7:35 pm
Location: North Carolina

Postby Backyardairgunner » Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:10 pm

I saw that in there catalog, also in 25, and from what Ive been hearing, they are Shit in the rogue, and dont think they will work in the mrod magazine?

I also dont really understand the point either, as they are only 18 grains....?

And what the hell is a "ballistic tip" doing on a 22 airgun pellet?
Random avatar
Backyardairgunner
 
Posts: 393
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 12:34 pm
Location: Florida

Postby 07condor22 » Thu Apr 26, 2012 2:33 pm

The Predator poly-mag has a ballistic tip, or should have called 'em "poly tip hollow point" ie 'PTHP' airgun pellets/bullets. I tend to think it makes them more aerodynamic, than a true hollow point, rather than some expansion?

Image


Sam :P
_________________Image

__________/\__________Shoot like ya life depends on iT or ya dog?
User avatar
07condor22
 
Posts: 1573
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2008 7:35 pm
Location: North Carolina

Postby Backyardairgunner » Thu Apr 26, 2012 2:49 pm

I wouldnt really consider that the same, the nosler is more of a bullet design and has that plastic red tip. I dont know why, thats more of a fire arm thing.



And if we look at TOfs videos it seems that the tip also helps with penetration for small amount and then breaks off and the pellet keeps expanding and penetrating.
Random avatar
Backyardairgunner
 
Posts: 393
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 12:34 pm
Location: Florida

Postby 07condor22 » Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:13 pm

I guess we don't know what the nosler bullet will do, hasn't been tested. I don't see a difference in the poly tip function of either.

I'm sure Tof or someone else will be glad to test 'em and let the TAG members know the results. I'll just wait for results before making my conclusion.





Sam :wink:
_________________Image

__________/\__________Shoot like ya life depends on iT or ya dog?
User avatar
07condor22
 
Posts: 1573
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2008 7:35 pm
Location: North Carolina

Postby RiffRaff » Thu Apr 26, 2012 6:32 pm

18 gr. huh?

You sure Gamo didn't have Nosler make those?
A unique SS. Who needs a bullpup?

Image
User avatar
RiffRaff
 
Posts: 3317
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2007 12:12 pm
Location: The Columbia Gorge, USA

Postby get the blue jay » Thu Apr 26, 2012 6:43 pm

na... gamo just steals others designs that work well, and make them their selves, just cheaper and fucked up.... aka.. gamoized :wink:
Aim Small - Miss Small
Rest In Peace Spackels....1999 - 2010
Image
User avatar
get the blue jay
 
Posts: 3106
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2007 10:55 am
Location: Payson, Az.

Postby RiffRaff » Thu Apr 26, 2012 6:52 pm

LOL, I was kinda referring to the light weight of a "bullet". Fuckin thing must be hollow or made of tin?
A unique SS. Who needs a bullpup?

Image
User avatar
RiffRaff
 
Posts: 3317
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2007 12:12 pm
Location: The Columbia Gorge, USA

Postby get the blue jay » Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:12 pm

lol.. .right... it would be nice to see something in the 28 to 48 range that works!

shit that reminds me... I need to turn some bushings and chop the choke off the 24incher....
Aim Small - Miss Small
Rest In Peace Spackels....1999 - 2010
Image
User avatar
get the blue jay
 
Posts: 3106
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2007 10:55 am
Location: Payson, Az.

Postby ssshooter » Thu Apr 26, 2012 8:05 pm

I bet Jerry aint happy, that looks like his design with a bal tip.
The Best Chrono is the Pro Chrono by Competition Electronics [Made in USA]
Random avatar
ssshooter
 
Posts: 1372
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:57 am
Location: Central Texas

Postby Backyardairgunner » Thu Apr 26, 2012 8:32 pm

I think Jerrys weigh a little more than 18 grains?

Lol
Random avatar
Backyardairgunner
 
Posts: 393
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 12:34 pm
Location: Florida

Postby Tofazfou » Thu Apr 26, 2012 8:45 pm

Here's my VIEW of the whole thing. And take this with a grain of salt please as these opinions are just that, MY OPINIONS.

1st, NOSLER makes some great bullets for powder burners. I for one don't quite know who to blame the bad accuracy on with the ROGUE. CROSMAN, GREEN MOUNTAIN, or NOSLER?

2nd, those small bore NOSLER bullets or PROJECTILES, just might not be accurate with our choked barrels. But, i am very curious as to how they are gonna perform in small bores (.25 and down). Not being negative, just acknowledging that they are not a DIABLO wasted pellet but a straight wall, grease grooved bullet. So it might be a 50-50 thing here.

3rd, i honestly THINK Crosman and Nosler jumped the gun with the introduction of these projectiles cause they based success off of them shooting from the Rogue. I don't consider them very good in the Rogue which they were designed for. BUT AGAIN, THAT'S JUST MY OPINION based off of initial reports and pics of groups with them.

4th, from what I've seen of the NOSLER .357" projectiles, they DO NOTHING when they hit flesh. Such as open up and expand. For the PRICE, that makes them a failure cause any slug can hit its intended target and NOT expand. So why should one buy the 357 version at such a cost of 1 dollar a round? SERIOUSLY!?

5th, by looking at the design of these, ROUNDNOSE POLYTIP, they WILL not expand as a small bore projectile. Again, just my opinion. But based off what i've seen of the 357 version and knowing quite a few things about ballistics, these projectiles in small bore configuration will do the same as the big bore version..............PENETRATE AND NOT EXPAND. Our famed "DOMED" JSB, Beeman Kodiak, Crosman Premier...etc..etc...etc..etc pellets do the same thing. The penetrate with VERY LITTLE expansion.

KEY POINTS:

1st, a true NOSLER BALLISTIC TIP bullet in powder burner configuration is being shot at 2000-4000. FPS. Dependent on caliber. The Rogue at 800 fps shooting these slugs will NOT open up...........PERIOD!

2nd, the Predator POLY-TIP while being a BALLISTIC TIP is of a different design, shape and configuration. The PT, is actually a HP pellet with a RECESSED and SMALLER DIAMETER (at its base which is the tips widest point) Poly-TIP that sits slight BELOW the HP mouth. So the PT gets driven rearward into the HP cavity to start MORE expansion then of course the HP mouth opens up as it travels through flesh.

The Nosler bullet wont expand cause its being pushed too slowly and the entire TIP/HEAD is of round nose config. which will not initiate expansion at our lowly Big Bore FPS. It simply "SLIPS" through tissue.

No other way to view these slugs.

And believe me...........JERRY's GOT NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT....lol!
User avatar
Tofazfou
 
Posts: 2319
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:13 pm
Location: California

Postby Jerry » Thu Apr 26, 2012 9:16 pm

we're not skeeered!
Random avatar
Jerry
 
Posts: 2473
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 11:22 pm
Location: Leonardtown, MD

Postby 80 GRIT » Thu Apr 26, 2012 9:24 pm

Once again it seems like these marketing strategies are aimed at the PB guys who don't know much about pellet guns, but I'd be willing to test them providing they send me a few tins for free :P
http://www.80gritproductions.com


And I saw Heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and He who sat on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and wages war. REV19:11
User avatar
80 GRIT
 
Posts: 3749
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 8:53 am
Location: florida

Postby get the blue jay » Thu Apr 26, 2012 9:46 pm

Tofazfou wrote:The Nosler bullet wont expand


you called it! but it looks as if they were designed not to.....

here is what crosman has on their sight about them...

These .22 caliber bullets incorporate Nosler's famous Ballistic Tip™ technology. Positioned in the mouth of the lead bullet is Nosler's patented polymer tip, designed to resist deformation and increase downrange terminal ballistics. Designed to give airgun hunters the ultimate advantage.

hell, I'd try some if they are cheap enough... still to fuckin light tho
Aim Small - Miss Small
Rest In Peace Spackels....1999 - 2010
Image
User avatar
get the blue jay
 
Posts: 3106
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2007 10:55 am
Location: Payson, Az.

Postby Backyardairgunner » Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:10 pm

Thank you for confirming exactly what I thought Tof, I dont understand the advantage of the polymer tip or whatever in these things, and why would you want to resist deformation? Are we trying to penetrate a elephant skull or something here?
Random avatar
Backyardairgunner
 
Posts: 393
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 12:34 pm
Location: Florida

Postby Tofazfou » Fri Apr 27, 2012 12:04 am

GUYS, NO, they are saying the POLYMER TIP is designed to resist deformation while in flight and during handling. All ballistic tips are made to do this. Its the same principle with the POWDER BURNER BULLET VERSION. The tips are for aerodynamic purposes and they also start the initial deforming of the lead core. Predator Pellet BT's are the same way. Hard and don't really deform. But the difference with the PB BULLETS is again...........PB bullets are traveling 2000-4000 FPS. So in PB config, those poly tips do EXACTLY what they should do. ALSO, in the PB version of the poly tip, the lead is lower than the base of the POLY-TIP. So when the PT slams into flesh, there is an air gap between the base of the tip and the lead and that gap allows the tip to "SLAM" into the lead core therefore making the lead start its initial VIOLENT deformation into a mushroom.

On the NOSLER version of airgun slugs (.22-.25-.357)........the speeds are simply not high enough to create any REAL deformation as well as the SHAPE of the head being WRONG!. I would even go as far as to say even at 950-1000 fps, expansion would be very little. Just a guess but, I'd be willing to place a wager and admit i was wrong if i am. I will buy a tin and test them just like every other pellet.

IF found to be accurate, the only advantage with them that i can see is that they will have slightly HIGHER BC's than their DIABLO counterparts such as the Predators. But the PREDATORS are simply a force to be reckoned with and are proven in many a caliber. They also MUSHROOM PERFECTLY and quickly i might add.

NOTICE THE CAVITY IN THE HP BETWEEN THE HP AND THE POLYTIP. The gaps can be seen at the mouth and in the middle of the pellet just under the polytip base:
Image

Notice in this pic how the pellet is MUSHROOMED while also leaving a polytip indention in the center of the base of the mouth of the pellet:
Image

In this 20 cal Pred pic, notice how the poly tip (PT) is not deformed even though they impacted the gel at about 900 fps:
Image

Heres the NOSLER VARMAGEDDON .224 bullet and its GAP cavities to aide exansion:
Image

The Predator Poly Mags work because they are LIGHTLY built, they are proven to be accurate and, the poly tip actually sits INSIDE the HP cavity so when the Predator hits flesh, it can still open up as a HP. But the accuracy is improved cause the TIP slightly plugs up the HP cavity therefore aiding in accuracy and lethality buy allowing the pellet to drive deep while expanding and also keep the BC high. PREDATOR SHOULD REALLY GET MORE CREDIT THAN THEY HAVE GOTTEN. They are GENIUSES 4 producing these UNIQUE PELLETS. They took an idea from NOSLER and designed it into pellet form. No one else had done it and the current HP's like Crow Magnums suck for accuracy but are devastating WHEN it does hit. And GAMO just went "LIMP IN THE BRAIN" when they tried to make their own UNIQUE TIPPED pellets.
User avatar
Tofazfou
 
Posts: 2319
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:13 pm
Location: California

Postby Jerry » Fri Apr 27, 2012 5:54 pm

I guess we'll see how the Noslers perform. I don't see much reason for a down-scaled .357 given that the smaller slugs fit into weight ranges already served, but if they shoot accurate, that's a win for them.

There's not much value in speculation (except entertainment, and I'm good with that!) but we'll all be able to test as soon as they deliver. The great thing about this product is that there are a whole lot of .22s and .25s out there that can be test beds. Not near as many .357s on the market and even fewer .357 owners interested in the huge cost of the Nosler slugs that the Rogue had hardly put a shine on...

I saw a decent group with the Rogue and Nosler combo the other day. The shooter is learning his gun and that always makes a difference. Still a little early, but it looks like the Noslers are at least acceptable for hunting accuracy. The cost of those thing almost makes buying a mold cost effective though...
Random avatar
Jerry
 
Posts: 2473
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 11:22 pm
Location: Leonardtown, MD

Postby 07condor22 » Fri Apr 27, 2012 8:46 pm

Wow, interesting post! Have to say I'm surprised at the negative speculation having not ever shot one. Would I try one, all depends on the actual test results posted by a Tofazfou review, if he decides to do a review. Seems i need a new .22 Condor?

Lee 8-)
_________________Image

__________/\__________Shoot like ya life depends on iT or ya dog?
User avatar
07condor22
 
Posts: 1573
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2008 7:35 pm
Location: North Carolina

Postby Tofazfou » Fri Apr 27, 2012 9:11 pm

Lee,

Not really so much negativity to be honest. The 357 versions are in FACT expensive and have produced very little GOOD accuracy. And the cost is 1 buck a round. So when that happens, you simply have a LITTLE doubt in the other calibers. They MIGHT be accurate but accuracy is not the only point in ammo. They have to be affordable and they have to perform also to justify the cost.

But as stated by all...........WE WILL SEE when the pellets come out. I for one am interested in testing them and i have a totally open mind. It's all about what they do on paper and game.
User avatar
Tofazfou
 
Posts: 2319
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:13 pm
Location: California

Next

Return to Hunting

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

x