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R&L Shrouds Exploded and Examined...

Talk about the design and implementation of Moderators, Shrouds and Pickles along with other methods of quietening down air rifles. PLEASE NOTE: this is for air rifles and air pistols only, not Powderburners.

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R&L Shrouds Exploded and Examined...

Postby Hoot » Wed Jun 29, 2011 12:49 am

http://www.rlairgunsupply.com is where the shrouds come from. I accessed two of them. He makes three models that I am aware of, the three baffle, the four baffle and the seven baffle.

I will examine the four and seven baffle models.

For the sake of understanding, my opinion will be the moderators used on the Talon Stubby "Extreme" in .25 caliber. I will post some pics and comments on the Hi Flo and Extreme valves in "Mods and Machinists" for those interested. (They look identical)

First lets take a look at the four baffle moderator:

Image


All steel construction. The knurled cap screws on securely. Note the "cup" plastic baffles very similar to those used in the Marauder system. The end of the moderator is threaded and screws onto an adapter that replaces the forward barrel brace. The moderator weighs 9.325 oz.

The OAL is 6.75 inches:

Image


The outside tube diameter is 1.017 inches:

Image


All the R & L baffles appear to be identical.

The length is 1.29 inches:

Image


Inside diameter is 0.74 inches:

Image


The hole at the baffled end measures .270" in diameter.


The 12" moderator is going to bring the OAL of the Talon Stubby to 37", but reduces the discharge sound to hammer slap and pellet impact.

Image


It measures 11.75" and has seven baffles. Otherwise, it is identical to the four baffle model, but weighs 11.35 ounces.

Holding the moderator onto the Talon Stubby is a steel adapter that replaces the forward most barrel brace. It's milled from a single piece of steel, and is roughly 1.25" in length. As with the OEM barrel brace, the adapter has one threaded grub screw hole, with two larger unthreaded holes next to it.

Image.


The threads are finely milled and the fit is excellent.

Image


The adapter fits very snugly onto the Talon barrel. I needed to sand my barrel a thousandth or so to get mine to tightly slide on.

Image


The new Talon barrels are attached with four (4) grub screws, two on the bottom and two on the left side of the barrel. Once the adapter is fitted and grubbed in, the other holes line up perfectly.

The way the adapter is constructed, only the moderator is utilized to minimize muzzle blast. It would be possible to vent back into the shroud but would best be done by a machinist to drill the vent holes. This is not something to be done with anything less than a good drill press and a rock solid fixture to hold the adapter firmly in place during drilling.

I believe the effectiveness of the moderator would be considerably enhanced with drilling both barrel mounts and utilizing all of the shroud for pressure relief. A few vent holes would further enhance the effectiveness of the unit.


Conclusions:

1) This is an all steel, carefully milled instrument, black anodized, and is very heavy duty in its construction, and accordingly more heavy than an aluminum tubed model. The cost seems quite low for this quality.

2) The three and four baffle models will reduce your sound signature substantially in calibers .22 and .25, but your neighbors will hear you shooting if they are very near your property. I liken the sound to a good shroud PCP with end cap and no baffles.

In my opinion, this would be good for hunting, but should not be used in close proximity to touchy neighbors. That being said, a reduction in power setting, and caliber, plus using a standard Talon valve, or the Condor valve, would both have an impact on the sound signature. It will not be silent, but quiet enough for most individual's general use. And, it is very short, and looks good on the Stubby.


The 12", which is identical in cost, is vastly more effective with seven baffles. Hammer slap and pellet impact quiet in caliber .22 and .25, and used with the "Extreme" valve, depending on power settings.

It adds weight and length to the Stubby. However, if you need quiet, real quiet, this is the way to go in the R & L lineup. If you order no moderator, $110.00 per ea., you will get a standard Talon end cap, and can then choose whatever direction you want in weight, length, width, and effectiveness on any modifier that fits the Talon frame.


Regards,

Kindly 'Ol Uncle Hoot :shock:


"Battling stupidity and ignorance since 1965!"
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Postby tagdagger » Wed Jun 29, 2011 2:17 pm

Threading the barrel bushing is some good thinking. My hats off to them on that one. Tag,
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Postby benneeb0y » Wed Jun 29, 2011 4:33 pm

Sweet thanks Hoot!
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Postby RiffRaff » Wed Jun 29, 2011 5:08 pm

That looks like its built well. I love that threaded bushing idea.

I'm not certain that tube O.D. would fit inside my old Yellow Ninja talon frame though. That old thing is on the small size inside.
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Postby mrpointy97 » Thu Jun 30, 2011 11:15 am

Great review, Hoot.

I received an 8 baffle model from Randy at R&L a week or so ago, but have not yet fitted it. I haven't measured it yet but my estimate when I received it was 13" length, which sounds about like your 11.75" length + one more 1.3" baffle.

Terrific quality construction. Simple baffles, but they appear to be milled from plastic rod stock in a very tough material.

Mine is going into a 12" .22 SS, so it should approach silence. I expect that on a .177 12", or either caliber on CO2, it will prove to be overkill, but I've always believed that if quiet is the point, accept some size to get the best quiet, within reason. Mounted, my Talon SS will look like the main picture of the red rifle on R&L's site.

One other cool thing about R&L's design is that a longer unit can still be used with an 18" barrel by removing baffles and using a barrel-centering cap he makes from the same material as the baffles. I haven't done the math, but my unit would probably still have 4 baffles in place in front of the 18" barrel. Since the 18" puts more of the air's energy into the pellet, leaving less energy in the air to go "pop", it would probably be somewhat louder, but not a lot, if you stay at the same power wheel setting as you had for the 12".
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Cut some baffles

Postby Hoot » Thu Jun 30, 2011 1:14 pm

I also considered a longer barrel and determined that I could keep my baffle count up if I cut one or two of the baffles in half. They are quite long, so it might make a positive difference in the output if you have three full baffles and two half baffles.

Further, you can have that mount drilled to vent air back into the Talon shroud, venting the rear barrel mount would help further, as would venting the frame.

There are a few tricks left to max out the potential of this modifier, if you go to a longer barrel.


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Re: Cut some baffles

Postby mrpointy97 » Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:25 pm

Hoot wrote:I also considered a longer barrel and determined that I could keep my baffle count up if I cut one or two of the baffles in half. They are quite long, so it might make a positive difference in the output if you have three full baffles and two half baffles.


That's a great idea I hadn't thought of, Hoot. I know that for a given volume, more baffles is quieter (assuming they're not thick enough to significantly reduce the interior volume).

Oh, and my tube appears to be blued steel rather than anodized, as you described your examples.
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Yep

Postby Hoot » Fri Jul 01, 2011 5:20 pm

I believe you are right. I'm color blind and dark blue and black look very much the same to these old eyes.

It's a nice job. I wish it was aluminum!


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Postby SECoda » Sat Jul 02, 2011 9:28 am

Nice design. Good review. I just got a new one and it also has a nylon barrel alignment unit that slips over the end of the barrel and the last baffle slips over the alignment unit maintain perfect alignment.
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Postby AirGunner1 » Wed Jul 06, 2011 6:19 pm

I have looked all over the http://www.rlairgunsupply.com/ site. Where does he show these for sale ?
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Look here...

Postby Hoot » Wed Jul 06, 2011 7:19 pm

AirGunner1 wrote:I have looked all over the http://www.rlairgunsupply.com/ site. Where does he show these for sale ?



Here is the site address for the shrouds:

http://www.rlairgunsupply.com/cart/prod ... 01-16.html


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Postby AirGunner1 » Thu Jul 07, 2011 6:46 am

Now I see... It is under Custom Shop. Thanks.
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I have the 4 baffel model

Postby Vrablic/theodor » Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:25 pm

First off thanks for the pics and info about the shroud. I have the four baffel model. It connects to my barrel with a compression fitting. Totally different then yours. Can I put a connection like yours on my 24 inch tt condor? Would different funnel shaped baffels work better and if so is there anywhere to buy them? Thanks this site is badass.
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Postby AirGunner1 » Sat Jul 09, 2011 12:07 pm

Has anyone thought about putting each of the baffles in a press and creating a funnel shape and see how much quieter it is ?
This would reduce the bounce factor as the air would trap in the forward corner, with the energy dieing out there.
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how quiet is quiet?

Postby darryl » Tue Aug 09, 2011 7:25 pm

can the shroud be tested with a decibel meter? Maybe a before and after on a decibel meter, with the test done outside? I ask because I'm considering the new Air Force pistol. But already many are saying it will be loud. Since I don't hunt, perhaps I'd do better to stick with my P-rod? It's got a Jim Gaska shroud extension on it which makes it a bit more neighbor friendly when I shoot in my back yard. I don't get the impression the new Air Force pistol will be that quiet, nor that is should be used for back yard shooting in the city.
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PS "mouse- fart quiet" does not count :wink:
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Postby roachcreek » Tue Aug 09, 2011 8:41 pm

Having had a Airhog shroud on my Condor, while using a 12 inch barrel, basically what your looking here with this pistol, I can tell you it does mute the report somewhat, but there is nothing about it that could be termed neighborhood friendly.

With a 24 inch barrel it is a different situation entirely.

If you do not hunt, why on earth would you need the extra power and report?

Stick with your PRod, that AF postol will get you in trouble.

Regards,

Roachcreek
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since I don't hunt...

Postby darryl » Tue Aug 09, 2011 8:56 pm

my point exactly, roachcreek. but power is corrupting. I can pass on this pistol.
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Bi

Postby Hoot » Wed Aug 10, 2011 12:22 am

AirGunner1 wrote:Has anyone thought about putting each of the baffles in a press and creating a funnel shape and see how much quieter it is ?
This would reduce the bounce factor as the air would trap in the forward corner, with the energy dieing out there.



The baffles are plastic cups, similar to the Marauder shroud baffles.

The better idea is to vent that screw-on shroud holder/barrel brace, and let some of that air go to the back of the front baffle. It has about 6.5 of space back there and could be vented as well. That's what I'm working on!

If I can make any progress, I'll post pics and reports.


Hoot :shock:
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R&L

Postby Vrablic/theodor » Thu Aug 11, 2011 9:46 pm

Anyone here make custom baffels for this R&L shroud? I have the 4 baffel model now with compression fitting for 24 inch barrel. How much difference do you think they will make having different shapped baffels or more thinner ones? I just ordered a the newer shroud that screws on to the barrel bushings. He said it would take a couple weeks.
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Postby Whistler » Thu Aug 18, 2011 7:34 pm

After reading this thread I ordered a shroud from R&L today for a unit that will fit a Talon SS with a 24 inch barrel. Shortly after I placed my order I received an email with instructions for the shroud. In the instructions there is a compression fitting, not the steel adapter that replaces a barrel bushing as is shown here. I really like the idea of the steel adapter that replaces a barrel bushing rather than a compression fitting. Does anyone know which one I should expect?

I emailed Randy asking this question too but was hoping someone here could tell me.
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