Is Elmer Keith's 358429 the perfect bullet for the Bulldog?

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roachcreek
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Is Elmer Keith's 358429 the perfect bullet for the Bulldog?

Postby roachcreek » Wed Dec 14, 2016 11:57 am

I have this mold, it casts out at 173 with WW, in pure lead it has to push 175 grains.

The greeat thing about the Bulldog for me is the 5 shot magazine, which is limited to .740 ength bullets, the 358429 is .741, it fits thee magazine, and it just fits, so there is no rattle.

I am thinking that the long bullet with the fast twist, 1-16 I think, would be the best magazine fed bullet for the Bulldog.

I believe with a ported bulldog minus the valve spring these could be chasing 800 FPS With the .25 metplate it would be a very effective pellet.
Regards,

Roachcreek

Longest air gun shot ever 615 yards 12 oz cola can

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wd9GXcrnZrM

tkerrigan
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Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 10:49 pm
Location: Jefferson, OR

Re: Is Elmer Keith's 358429 the perfect bullet for the Bulldog?

Postby tkerrigan » Wed Dec 14, 2016 2:30 pm

That bullet sounds good to try, Bulldog barrel is 1:14" twist and I have heard that it likes about .356 diameter, I have a BBT mould, so will be trying it when I get some cast. Regards, Tom

iride
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Location: Odessa, Texas USA

Re: Is Elmer Keith's 358429 the perfect bullet for the Bulldog?

Postby iride » Fri Dec 16, 2016 12:41 am

I have seen some good prices on Bulldogs and have been tempted to buy one for a , What the hell.
I read 1/2 inch in 50 yards, Now that's sparrow range for me, I do have the back stops to stop a 357 slug at 950 FPS.
So I am asking what's stopping me from shooting a few sparrows with it????
What is your game you are taking with this gun??? and distance?
I know its loud, But I get buy shooting 22 shorts with a long barrel, That's the sub sonic ones. Not much accuracy with them at 50 yards three inch group, CCI.
Mike
West Texas, home of all the rivers
22 Cricket
25 Cricket
P 17 pistols Three
Mutant 22 Listone barrel & CZ barrel

roachcreek
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Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:40 pm

Re: Is Elmer Keith's 358429 the perfect bullet for the Bulldog?

Postby roachcreek » Sat Dec 17, 2016 4:45 pm

Ride,

I guess first off it is a 357 with a magazine, then of course is power, and for a magazine fed 38 with a 3000 PSI fill it is head and shoulders above the rest.

I have had some nice big bores, but you could not hand pump them and at this stage in life I don't want to spend another grand for the tanks and Shoebox.

Then there is the simplicity of modding the thing, believe me when I say it is so easy a blind man can do it, you can easily gain close to 100 FPS, then that sparrow killer is pushing those 81 grain pills at 1050 FPS, if JSB ever puts a plastic tip on that pellet you might be able to tackle starlings!

Yeah it is ugly, noisy with light projectiles and you can't be an elitist air gunner with a $800.000 rifle, but ugly is as ugly does and it can put out JSB' around 300 fps faster than guns costing three times as much, figureing in the PA Christmas discount.

It got me shoting again and today I cast bullets for it, pretty damn good for a blind man.

I don't shoot anything living with mine, however, if armed with nothing else and home intruder #3 ever breaks down my door I would make an exception, I have found that power level to work well for such matters is you keep your head about you.

Tom,

I would love to send you some 358429's if you want to try them. I owe you.
Regards,

Roachcreek

Longest air gun shot ever 615 yards 12 oz cola can

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wd9GXcrnZrM

tkerrigan
Posts: 73
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 10:49 pm
Location: Jefferson, OR

Re: Is Elmer Keith's 358429 the perfect bullet for the Bulldog?

Postby tkerrigan » Sat Dec 17, 2016 6:56 pm

Hey Roachcreek, I'd be delighted to try some of your bullets in the Bulldog. If I come up with something good I'll send you some. Regards, Tom

roachcreek
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Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:40 pm

Re: Is Elmer Keith's 358429 the perfect bullet for the Bulldog?

Postby roachcreek » Sun Dec 18, 2016 12:19 pm

Tom,

PM your address to me and I will get some to you.
Regards,

Roachcreek

Longest air gun shot ever 615 yards 12 oz cola can

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wd9GXcrnZrM

iride
Posts: 1548
Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2013 1:38 am
Location: Odessa, Texas USA

Re: Is Elmer Keith's 358429 the perfect bullet for the Bulldog?

Postby iride » Mon Dec 19, 2016 1:25 am

OK you guys air is no problem with me, I got to go out and run my Sheldon compressor just to let it run, Wasting air
I have a great white and a small Omega tank ,
I really have no need for a 357 bulldog, But I live in Texas and bigger is better,
Seen some really good prices on them 500 to 600 dollars , I am thinking hell fire shoot a few sparrows a few Euro doves would be cool.
I am sure someone makes a LDC for them, I am not really a paper puncher, 98 % of my shoots and something is dead.
Mike
West Texas, home of all the rivers
22 Cricket
25 Cricket
P 17 pistols Three
Mutant 22 Listone barrel & CZ barrel

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Leadbetter
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Location: Kentucky

Re: Is Elmer Keith's 358429 the perfect bullet for the Bulldog?

Postby Leadbetter » Tue Dec 20, 2016 1:59 am

Those 173's are too long for many .357's but work great in most .38's .

You guys got me wanting a bulldog now.


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roachcreek
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Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:40 pm

Re: Is Elmer Keith's 358429 the perfect bullet for the Bulldog?

Postby roachcreek » Tue Dec 20, 2016 10:28 am

A huge problem with the 358429, is that Lyman has reissued it over the years and the designs are a little different with each reissue, or so I have read.

I would like to say I knew of this before buying the mold, but in fact I was clueless and to make matters worse, I was led to believe it was a 158 grain bullet.

After I got the mold, I realized it was the 358219 and researched it. I also measured the cavity and saw it might be a close fit for the magazine, and at 173 plus the extra for pure lead, it is right at the maximum FPE for the platform.

Blind ass luck, no pun intended.
Regards,

Roachcreek

Longest air gun shot ever 615 yards 12 oz cola can

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wd9GXcrnZrM

roachcreek
Posts: 4799
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:40 pm

Re: Is Elmer Keith's 358429 the perfect bullet for the Bulldog?

Postby roachcreek » Wed Dec 28, 2016 5:23 pm

I sent Tom 25 of the 358429 bullets to weigh and test for accuracy. I also sent him some cast bullets that I had purchased off the AA Classifieds from Richard Morrill in Punta Gorda Fl.. The bullets from Morrill are 120 grains HP's that are of the Maxiball design out of a Accurate mold.

:tag: Tom chronied the 120's at 921 FPS and got between 1.25 and 1.5 inches at 57 yards, Tom shot them at 3000 PSI and suspected they would fly faster at 2700 PSI.

The358429 bullets weighed 178grains, they went into 2.5 to 3 inches at 57 yards, the velocity was 809 FPS for a FPE of 259 FPE, I believe that is the most energy from a magazine fed bullet from the Bulldog, or single shot from the Bulldog for that matter.

Remember this is not from a stock Benjamin Bulldog, it has been ported, polished, spring preload maxed out and the valve return spring removed.

Until this morning I had ported and polished mine and maxed out the preload on the hammer spring, bu I had not removed the valve spring, I had my reasons, first and foremost being I did not know if I could set the valve without the spring using a hand pump. It took exactly 1 hour a nd 45 minutes for this old blind man to disassemble, remove the valve spring, and reassemble, it pumped up on the first attempt.

Many thanks again Tom.


I also removed theplastic noise potentialof the stock by simply taping up the offending areas of the stock with a layer of duct tape, then stuffing some paper towels inside the stock under the butt plate.
Regards,

Roachcreek

Longest air gun shot ever 615 yards 12 oz cola can

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wd9GXcrnZrM

tkerrigan
Posts: 73
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 10:49 pm
Location: Jefferson, OR

Re: Is Elmer Keith's 358429 the perfect bullet for the Bulldog?

Postby tkerrigan » Sat Dec 31, 2016 3:11 pm

Yesterday I enlarged the ports of the Bulldog by about .020" using an "N" letter bit which should take it to .302". I shot some of Roachcreek's 178gr bullets and the following resulted. Filled to 3000 to 3100lbs, 783fps, 812fps, 809fps, 791fps. This was without tethering. I was a little disappointed that the FPE only went from 259 to 261. Then I realized that the probe is practically sitting in the middle of the barrel port now since the barrel port hole has been enlarged from if I remember correctly from .220" to .302. So the end of the probe is sitting about .040" into the barrel port. I have a couple of RC's 178gr left so I will redo this when I get the probe opened up. I'll try using a ball end bit in the milling machine if the probe isn't too hard. Regards, Tom

roachcreek
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Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:40 pm

Re: Is Elmer Keith's 358429 the perfect bullet for the Bulldog?

Postby roachcreek » Mon Jan 02, 2017 9:41 am

Tom,

I am waiting to see how this turns out with the enlarged port. Are you the first to go that far?

I see that Thelakerat has been silent since the experts on the guild did not like his 4500/3000 conversion. Have you heard any thing more on his conversion since he made the video about getting all his parts.
Regards,

Roachcreek

Longest air gun shot ever 615 yards 12 oz cola can

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wd9GXcrnZrM

tkerrigan
Posts: 73
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 10:49 pm
Location: Jefferson, OR

Re: Is Elmer Keith's 358429 the perfect bullet for the Bulldog?

Postby tkerrigan » Mon Jan 02, 2017 1:01 pm

The only thing I've heard about Lakerat was that he might be making moderators and tubes, etc for the Bulldog in the future. I'll try some pellets in the BD today to make sure that the heads don't get shaved going past the port. The port is at 85% of bore size right now and that may be pushing it. If the probe isn't too complicated, I will try making a new one as it needs to be .040" longer also in addition to the slot being moved back .040".
Regards, Tom

roachcreek
Posts: 4799
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:40 pm

Re: Is Elmer Keith's 358429 the perfect bullet for the Bulldog?

Postby roachcreek » Sat Feb 18, 2017 12:29 pm

Tom,
How is the probe fix going/

I am wintering in Maui, but check daily to see how that is going.

Also, how did the DYnonap and porting the shroud work out?
Regards,

Roachcreek

Longest air gun shot ever 615 yards 12 oz cola can

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wd9GXcrnZrM

tkerrigan
Posts: 73
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 10:49 pm
Location: Jefferson, OR

Re: Is Elmer Keith's 358429 the perfect bullet for the Bulldog?

Postby tkerrigan » Sat Feb 18, 2017 2:03 pm

I haven't got back to working on the Bulldog yet, got sidetracked casting bullets and trying to get a good group out of my K1 Huben. Regards, Tom


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